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I like'em too (see my avatar wannabe)    And I like NDB approaches. The thing about real-world approaches, is that you rarely fly them in their entirety anyway. The  only time (save once) I've flown ANY approach from IAF (initial approach fix) on in, is practicing.

Let me use the ILS 9R @ KOSU for an example:



Now, looking at the two important parts in more detail, I'll explain.





The entire, published approach would have you flying to the IAF (Fuler NDB (outer-marker)) no lower than 3100msl... then fly an outbound heading 272 for one minute descending no lower than 2700msl. At one minute you'd make the procedure turn (still remaining above 2700msl) to a heading of 317 and fly that for one minute. Then, make a right turn to a heading of 137 to intercept the localizer. Dealing with winds during these legs is what seperates good IFR pilots form mediocre. As soon as you're established inside of the localizer and on runway heading, you wait for the glidescope to come in and then start your descent to decision height staying on the glidescope. In theory, once you pass the final approach fix (which is also the NDB Fuler), you "can" shoot straight down to decision height (1105msl ), but that's not advisable or safe. Some approachs have altitude restrictions even inside the final approach fix. They're usually referenced by DME or a VOR radial intersection. That's moot if you're on or above the glidescope and really only comes into play if you're shooting a localizer-only approach (see the different decision height and minimums for "S-LOC 9R" ? ).

Now to further burden you in the cockpit, you're expected to start your timer at the final fix (Fuler) in the event that you lose the glidescope (see the chart under the airport diagram). So, if you're at decision height and time has expired for your approach speed... it's time to call a missed approach (fly runway heading climbing to 3000msl and then right turn direct to Fuller and hold) (holds are handful in themselves).


On a real approach.. ATC would vector you to simply intercept the localizer at 3000 and then clear you for the approach (you get to skip the IAF and that darn procedure turn). After established, you'd contact the tower and be cleared to land (cleared for the approach is  NOT cleared to land).

THe only time I flew an entire approach was the VOR 27  at KHTL. Visibilty was pretty poor and in that area, ATC will not vector you "straight in". It's up to you to fly the whole, published approach and it's good practice, as it keeps you from getting too disoriented and groping your way through a potential, called miss (and that's dangerous if there's anyone else in the area).

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LOL   

Just punch the NDB indentifier into the GPS   

It's hard to argue in favor of them (in fact it's hard to argue for the preservation of any radio nav aid). The equipment is heavy and takes up space. Since GPS's are capable of locating you in 3 dimensions.. it's just a matter of time before every single runway (even short grass strips) have precision approaches. Two GPSs are becoming pretty common equipment.. and like the Liberty we have (see it damaged in the photos section), two Garmin 430s give you both sets of nav/coms too. Very light and very efficient use of panel space.

The ADFs aren't getiing repaired in any of our planes. As soon as they stop functioning accurately.. out they come.

I like NBDs as outer markers, because no matter what approach you're flying.. they can keep you aware and from turning runway heading too early.

May I suggest reading what Hal Stoen writes a his website; he's forgotten more about flying than anyone here will ever know.

"Yea that's actually how we simulate tracking to NDBs. We plug in any point... usually an NDB or sometimes an imaginary fix. Next flip the bearing pointer to the GPS it's plugged into and voila!"

Simulating what?

Simulating NDB tracking in FS9, the NDB frequency is entered into the ADF tuner and the aircraft is pointed in the same direction as the ADF arrow is pointed. It's as simple as that. When the needle flips the station has been passed.

" . . . to simulate tracking to an NDB you must use the GPS and the Bearing Pointer found on the HSI"

Thank you for drawing that to my attention.

Talk about driving a tack with sledge-hammer!

One wonders if Cory Lidle was aware of any of this?
Too bad. So sad.

Original post: "In real life, if you start a VFR flight with a small GA plane and then suddenly the weather goes all bad and you have to choose an alternate and land but you are not cleared because "airport is currently IFR", is it possible (like it is in FS) to create an IFR flight plan "on the fly" so to be cleared for landing? And if this is the case, can this be done on any type of aircraft regardless of the onboard equipment (provided the pilot is IFR certified)? I'm asking this because it actually happened to me in FS, and I was able to land by providing an instant IFR plan "from where I am now to the airstrip". The plane was equipped with the standard radio stack and no autopilot, so I actually landed manually (I just used the ILS beacon as a reference)." -- no mention of Cirrus.

When ATC asks if you are "IFR equipped", they do not take into consideration the type of onboard equipment but only whether it is working and the crew knows how to use it to complete the assigned Class of procedure.

If one is cleared by ATC for the NDB-A Approach, no ILS, GPS, HSI nor any other Class-One ILS equipment comes into the equation.

Yea. Bill you have me slightly confused on the Corey Lidle thing.

As for ATC knowing your equipment. They do know your equipment because anytime you file an IFR or even VFR flight plan you tell them your type of equipment. Any time you file a flight plan you give them your aircraft type along with a suffix indicating your navigation equipment capabilities. The suffixes are found here. They're about 2/3rds of the way down the page in a large table labeled aircraft suffixes.

It's strange how the subject of a thread changes so quickly.

Justin

FridayChild wrote on Dec 4^th, 2006 at 11:51am:


Gotta love aviation acronyms. The acronym for the required IFR equipment is GRAB CARDD. Some leave out the second D when talking about General Aviation aircraft.

G - Generator or other adequate source of electricity
R - Rate of Turn Indicator
A - Attitude Indicator
B - Ball (Inclinometer) Keeps coordinated flight

C - Clock with Hours, Minutes, and Seconds
A - Altimeter, must be pressure sensitive with 100, 1,000, and 10,000 ft markings
R - Radios appropriate for communication and navigation
D - Directional Gyro
D - DME if operating above FL240 and using VOR as primary means of navigation

As long as you have all of these things along with TOMATOE A FLAMES and FLAPS (look these up they're all over the web and I don't feel like typing them all out) your plane can be certified for IFR flight.

For complete, and confusing, explanation consult FAR 91.205 Subpart D

The FAA:
"We're not happy until you're not happy."

Oh how I love the FAA and it's regs 

Justin

Yea I would assume a Cherokee 180 comes standard with IFR equipment. Of course in flight sim you can easily make it IFR capable aka not spend any money. Of course you could also spend probably close to $100 if you used some Reality XP avionics such as the Sandel HSI and a pair of Garmin 430s