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VFR to IFR (Read 705 times)
Nov 29th, 2006 at 6:53am

FridayChild   Offline
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In real life, if you start a VFR flight with a small GA plane and then suddenly the weather goes all bad and you have to choose an alternate and land but you are not cleared because "airport is currently IFR", is it possible (like it is in FS) to create an IFR flight plan "on the fly" so to be cleared for landing? And if this is the case, can this be done on any type of aircraft regardless of the onboard equipment (provided the pilot is IFR certified)? I'm asking this because it actually happened to me in FS, and I was able to land by providing an instant IFR plan "from where I am now to the airstrip". The plane was equipped with the standard radio stack and no autopilot, so I actually landed manually (I just used the ILS beacon as a reference).
 

Founder of A.A.A.A.A.A.A. (Aircraft Amateurs' Association Against Absurd Aviation Acronyms) My system specifications: FLIGHT SIMULATOR 2004 - AMD Athlon 64 3200+ CPU - 3 GB PC-3200 DDR400 dual channel RAM - 500 GB Seagate Barracuda 7200 rpm SATA-II hard disk - Sapphire Radeon HD 5750 1 GB PCI-E graphic card - Logitech Wingman Force 3D joystick + Logitech Formula Force pedals My FS whereabouts: low and slow, small single engine prop GA, Italy airfields.
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Reply #1 - Nov 29th, 2006 at 8:09am

Brett_Henderson   Offline
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Yes..  Some call that a "pop up" flight plan. I suppose the lingo varies. Anyway.. once when I was flying from KOSU to KPMH, ceilings lowered to the point where I'd have had to fly less than 1000agl.. OR.. get up on top.

All I did was call Columbus Approach and ask for IFR direct to Portsmouth Regional. They don't HAVE to do that (almost always do, knowing that it might be getting ugly) and will sometimes tell you to call FSS, but he took me in, gave me a squawk-code, heading and altitude. At altitude (4000msl), I was still in the soup, so I got bold and asked him for 6000..lol

Edit:  Obvioulsy the pilot and plane need to be IFR certified. As for using the ILS as a beacon.. I assume you mean you used the ILS like an ILS ?
 
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Reply #2 - Dec 1st, 2006 at 10:51am

FridayChild   Offline
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I mean I set my NAV equipment on the ILS frequency so to have a reference on the HSI, but the aircraft had no ILS equipment.
 

Founder of A.A.A.A.A.A.A. (Aircraft Amateurs' Association Against Absurd Aviation Acronyms) My system specifications: FLIGHT SIMULATOR 2004 - AMD Athlon 64 3200+ CPU - 3 GB PC-3200 DDR400 dual channel RAM - 500 GB Seagate Barracuda 7200 rpm SATA-II hard disk - Sapphire Radeon HD 5750 1 GB PCI-E graphic card - Logitech Wingman Force 3D joystick + Logitech Formula Force pedals My FS whereabouts: low and slow, small single engine prop GA, Italy airfields.
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Reply #3 - Dec 1st, 2006 at 11:50am

Brett_Henderson   Offline
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I'm not sure what you mean..

I've yet to see an HSI that didn't have both glidescope and localizer indicators (ILS)..

What plane/panel was it ?

Or maybe the a runway was localizer only ?



 
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Reply #4 - Dec 1st, 2006 at 1:04pm

FridayChild   Offline
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Maybe it's not correct to call it HSI. Bear with me, I've got a problem with acronyms (see signature)  Cheesy
How is the VOR gauge called?
Anyway, the plane was Piper 180 Cherokee with stock gauges.
 

Founder of A.A.A.A.A.A.A. (Aircraft Amateurs' Association Against Absurd Aviation Acronyms) My system specifications: FLIGHT SIMULATOR 2004 - AMD Athlon 64 3200+ CPU - 3 GB PC-3200 DDR400 dual channel RAM - 500 GB Seagate Barracuda 7200 rpm SATA-II hard disk - Sapphire Radeon HD 5750 1 GB PCI-E graphic card - Logitech Wingman Force 3D joystick + Logitech Formula Force pedals My FS whereabouts: low and slow, small single engine prop GA, Italy airfields.
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Reply #5 - Dec 1st, 2006 at 1:29pm

beaky   Offline
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Quote:
Maybe it's not correct to call it HSI. Bear with me, I've got a problem with acronyms (see signature)  Cheesy
How is the VOR gauge called?
Anyway, the plane was Piper 180 Cherokee with stock gauges.


The VOR indicator is just called a VOR indicator, or VOR... normally it consists of the compass ring, called the Omni Bearing Selector or
OBS, plus the single vertical needle, called the Course Deviation Indicator or CDI.

An HSI or Horizontal Situation Indicator is basically a directional gyro combined with two needles to indicate the ILS glideslope: one vertical for left/right orientation (relative to the runway centerline), and one horizontal for up/down orientation (relative to the glideslope). The vary in the way they're set up, and some (I think) also include a VOR indication function, but "HSI" always indicates that it has the glideslope needles.

Generally any aiport with an ILS will also have a VOR station on the field, so it's probably better to use the VOR rather than the ILS to "home in" on the runway.
 

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Reply #6 - Dec 1st, 2006 at 1:55pm

Brett_Henderson   Offline
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I'd bet it's about 50/50.  Or maybe even less than half of ILS equipped airports have a VOR at the field too. Either way, you can use a plain VOR  head(no glidescope indicator)to track just the localizer. I guess it would be just like a localizer only approach and better than the VOR, as your track would BE on runway center-line. Even if there is a VOR at the field, it's usually quite bit away from the runway anyway, and unless you're trying a published VOR approach, you'd have no way of gauging your descent. I suppose a DME would work in a pinch, but if you're just homing in on a runway by VOR.. you could easily come in way too high, or way too low.
 
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Reply #7 - Dec 2nd, 2006 at 12:57am

beaky   Offline
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Quote:
I'd bet it's about 50/50.  Or maybe even less than half of ILS equipped airports have a VOR at the field too. Either way, you can use a plain VOR  head(no glidescope indicator)to track just the localizer. I guess it would be just like a localizer only approach and better than the VOR, as your track would BE on runway center-line. Even if there is a VOR at the field, it's usually quite bit away from the runway anyway, and unless you're trying a published VOR approach, you'd have no way of gauging your descent. I suppose a DME would work in a pinch, but if you're just homing in on a runway by VOR.. you could easily come in way too high, or way too low.


I should have said "home in on the airport" rather than the runway (more range with a VOR)...but I guess that's not really what he was doing to begin with.

I'm surprised that the ratio of ILS-to-VORs is that low... shows you how often I use the ILS. Grin
 

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Reply #8 - Dec 2nd, 2006 at 6:01am

FridayChild   Offline
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I didn't notice this topic... interesting...
 

Founder of A.A.A.A.A.A.A. (Aircraft Amateurs' Association Against Absurd Aviation Acronyms) My system specifications: FLIGHT SIMULATOR 2004 - AMD Athlon 64 3200+ CPU - 3 GB PC-3200 DDR400 dual channel RAM - 500 GB Seagate Barracuda 7200 rpm SATA-II hard disk - Sapphire Radeon HD 5750 1 GB PCI-E graphic card - Logitech Wingman Force 3D joystick + Logitech Formula Force pedals My FS whereabouts: low and slow, small single engine prop GA, Italy airfields.
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Reply #9 - Dec 2nd, 2006 at 9:38am

Brett_Henderson   Offline
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I just took inventory of the airspace I fly most (central Ohio, out of KOSU).

There are six airports with a total of ten ILS or LOC equipped runways (8 ILS) and just one VOR in there (APE) and it's not AT any of the airports..   Shocked
 
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Reply #10 - Dec 2nd, 2006 at 6:52pm

beaky   Offline
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Quote:
I just took inventory of the airspace I fly most (central Ohio, out of KOSU).

There are six airports with a total of ten ILS or LOC equipped runways (8 ILS) and just one VOR in there (APE) and it's not AT any of the airports..   Shocked

Huh.
So what sort of published IFR approaches do they have? Fly to (nearby) VOR, or...?
 

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Reply #11 - Dec 2nd, 2006 at 8:24pm

Brett_Henderson   Offline
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The two BIG airports , KCMH  (port Columbus) and KLCK ,(Rickenbacker AFB) have outer-marker NDBs as initial-approach-fixes for all their ILS approaches. So do my home port, KOSU and the other class D airport, KTZR. I believe one of the KLCK ILSs uses a VOR further south and Newark (KVTA) uses the APE  VOR.


It IS unusual to have two major airports and two class D airports all together like that with out any of them having at least a terminal VOR.
« Last Edit: Dec 2nd, 2006 at 10:50pm by Brett_Henderson »  
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Reply #12 - Dec 3rd, 2006 at 12:08am

Boss_BlueAngels   Offline
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gosh this discussion makes me miss instrument flying.

  Never thought I'd say that. lol
 

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Reply #13 - Dec 3rd, 2006 at 2:23pm

wji   Offline
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" . . . can this be done on any type of aircraft regardless of the onboard equipment"

Negative.


Once the pilot contacts ATC to air-file an IFR clearance to destination, the first question ATC will ask is:"Are you IFR equiped?"  This means is there equipment fitted to the aircraft to complete the IFR procedure(s).

The question can be answered with Affirmative or Negative -- no Ifs, Ands or Buts -- the life of the pilot and anyone onboard depend upon this answer -- this is no time to get-it-wrong!

I always found it strange in all the time a I flew or filed -- land or air --no one ever asked me to produce any licenses nor asked me if I had the requisite rating(s) to complete (or accept) any procedure. Strange.


Youtube video-to-prove-it:Mooney flying into IFR conditions 00:03:27 Youtube video
 

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Reply #14 - Dec 3rd, 2006 at 3:05pm

beaky   Offline
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Quote:
The two BIG airports , KCMH  (port Columbus) and KLCK ,(Rickenbacker AFB) have outer-marker NDBs as initial-approach-fixes for all their ILS approaches. So do my home port, KOSU and the other class D airport, KTZR.



Gasp..! NDB approaches!!  Shocked How primitive...Roll Eyes Wink
'Course, those are not really old-school NDB approaches, like you might find at some uncontrolled fields, especially overseas...
But somehow it's comforting to know they're still in use. I like NDBs. Grin
 

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