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FSX vrs FS9... is it really THAT different? (Read 5669 times)
Reply #15 - Nov 25th, 2006 at 5:48pm

Joe_D   Offline
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I'm really glad that some are  satisfied with FSX as is.
It only proves that some are much easier to please than others.

As far as pointing out problems tha some are not aware of.... I don't know how to respond to that other than to point out that even ACES admitts there are serious  issues that  need to be addressed. Iwould suggest that some do some more research (and get past the initial wow factor) and take off the rose colored glasses.

BTW,wasn't FSX released as an XP/DX9 title? Anyone who holds the belief that the combo of VISTA and DX10 will sovle everything is dreaming.


"If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem".



 

Home airports are KMGJ and KSWF in Orange County, NY&&Stop by and say hello. Smiley
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Reply #16 - Nov 25th, 2006 at 6:23pm
an-225   Ex Member

 
Why is there all this FSX hate? It is really fun! All I see at the moment are people complaining and whining about FSX but they don't think to take a deep breath, relax, and either, fly in a rural (high FPS) area or go back to FS9 and wait to get a hardware update. As you guys say, FS9 IS better with all the add-ons. Wink

Proud FSX user. Smiley
 
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Reply #17 - Nov 25th, 2006 at 6:25pm

Brett_Henderson   Offline
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Quote:
I'm really glad that some are  satisfied with FSX as is.
It only proves that some are much easier to please than others.


There's a pretty distinct line between, easy-to-please and realistic. You're just focusing on the small percentage of FSX that is buggy (and it's really small when you compare it to how new and complex FSX is).  The 97% of FSX that is good is what I dwell on. If we stayed away from software that gets patched in it's lifetime.. we'd never run even Windows. I suppose, Joe, if you're bound and determined look for, point out and worry about bugs.. have fun  Wink

Quote:
BTW,wasn't FSX released as an XP/DX9 title? Anyone who holds the belief that the combo of VISTA and DX10 will sovle everything is dreaming.


I'm not sure what you mean. Vista and DX10 aren't supposed to solve ANY FSX problems. From what I understand, FSX is coded to take advantage of these things when they are released, and bring out even better features/performance. And if I'm not mistaken.. there will be a Vista/DX10 upgrade for FSX(it'll be like getting a brand new sim .. to me that's a GOOD thing.. not a short-coming).

Quote:
"If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem".


Are you trying to say that those who are pleased (albeit not completely) with FSX are part of the problem ?  That makes no sense. Should we just shelve it and complain ? If anything.. preaching how BAD FSX is, is more of a problem.

Like I've said.. It's a tremendous sim that will only get better.
 
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Reply #18 - Nov 25th, 2006 at 6:28pm

Mobius   Offline
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Quote:
I don't know how to respond to that other than to point out that even ACES admitts there are serious  issues that  need to be addressed. Iwould suggest that some do some more research (and get past the initial wow factor) and take off the rose colored glasses.

You mean some of the information presented by an ACES member HERE?  Particularly this one...

Quote:
DX10 by itself isn’t a magic bullet for the real performance issues that become evident as you move the sliders to the right. It was a conscious design decision of the studio to load the sliders so that, on day one, no one can run the sim at full slider levels. We did that so the sim will still have life in it three years from now. For better or worse, that is our design center. It is what it is. It will be that way in FS11, and it was that way in FS9 - so this conscious design decision should not come as a surprise.

As to why we didn’t hold the product back and polish more: given that the product had already been delayed by the Vista wave delay, we decided to not delay the product any longer. Given the positive threads I see, and other sites where the rampant negativity isn’t as high, I believe there is a lot of fun to be had with the current bits if you approach them with the right set of expectations. If your set of expectations is, “I want everything and I want it now,” we may not be the right product for you. If that set of expectations is to grow over time with the product and see it blossom, we are definitely the right product for you.

I realize there's performance issues, I'm not as ignorant of the problems as you might think, although I am still in the dark as to what problems you are having, I would like to know something other than "it's slow". Roll Eyes
 

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Reply #19 - Nov 25th, 2006 at 6:54pm

Hagar   Offline
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Quote:
From what I understand, FSX is coded to take advantage of these things when they are released, and bring out even better features/performance. And if I'm not mistaken.. there will be a Vista/DX10 upgrade for FSX(it'll be like getting a brand new sim .. to me that's a GOOD thing.. not a short-coming).

I could be wrong but I got the impression that FSX was originally intended to be released after Vista. When Vista ran into problems FSX had to be quickly optimized to run on existing systems. This could explain some of the many problems people are having with it. To be frank it was a rush job to catch the Christmas market. This is not so much the fault of the developers but the suits who make the decisions. Whoever's fault it is, let's not pretend this is an ideal situation. Far from it.

Quote:
Why is there all this FSX hate?

There is no hate but severe disappointment felt by people who dare to comment when they find bugs & faults that should not be there. They immediately get shouted down by those either lucky enough to have no problems as yet or reluctant to admit they made a mistake in getting it too soon. The latter seem to have an inexplicable blind loyalty to M$ & leap to its defence whenever anyone dares to point out the truth they obviously have problems accepting. I have to agree with Joe about those rose-tinted spectacles.

What's happening here is almost a repeat performance of countless bitter arguments in the CFS3 forum when that was released in November 2002. For someone on the outside like me it's like deja-vu. Only now, 4 years & a couple of patches down the line, are the 3rd party developers (mainly the freeware community I might add) starting to get to grips with it & making it what it should have been in the first place.
 

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Reply #20 - Nov 25th, 2006 at 7:03pm

krylite   Offline
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I have to echo that the flaws of FSX are too conspicuous. I like the new 3d effects, the cars on the highway, the higher rez/pixel scenery etc, but I haven't played it all that much. Wondering to sell it used, or try out the SDK and make something with it.

Seeing the standard edition only on #28 on Amazon.com best sellers for PC games is a valid indicator that the vast majority of pc gamers where not happy with it. It's even rating 2.5 stars average, a low overall rating and these aren't haters or competitors to the product, just honest disappointment as said. Look at FS2004, still #8  on the top pc game sellers. At least FS9 still carries the banner of MSFS still being at the top tier of best selling PC games of all time. (PC's started in 1984, but FS still wowed for the 8-bit dinosaurs: Apple I,II, Commodore 64, Atari etc. with Artwick's FS I and II, I still have the Sublogic  box and 5.25" floppy discs for my FSII for Atari)

 

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Reply #21 - Nov 25th, 2006 at 7:25pm

Daube   Offline
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There was a lot of dissapointment for all those people who strongly believed that better graphics are for free, and additionnal power is useless  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Yeah because, if a card can display perfectly 600 objects with 256x256 textures, it can also display 3000 objects with 1024x1024 textures, why not ?  Tongue

As for the original post, if I understood right, you wonder if it's worth playing FSX since the graphics are no different from FS9.... so you play a game JUST for the graphics, then ? I see... personnaly, I still focus on the list of other enhancements.

Finaly, for DX10, from what I could read, there will be some enhancement, just because DX10 and the unified shaders use the harware in a much better way than DX9 ever could. The gain will not be miraculous, of course.
 
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Reply #22 - Nov 25th, 2006 at 7:27pm
Nick N   Ex Member

 
Been lurking and I was going to stay out of this one however with Mobius making a totally correct reference to ‘the horses mouth’ I think that post puts it all into complete perspective. I love how people read something like that from an authority and still DOn't Get It... and never will.

There may be some performance issues which need to be addressed but the bottom line is the software was and will continue to be updated for hardware that does not exist.

I posted a complete rundown on what one needs in the way of hardware to even come close to getting performance + eye-candy back in August. That list included a minimum of 2 GB of memory on an A64 3700+ processor (preferably greater) or equivalent Intel, and preferably a dual core because of the benefits to VISTA which will ultimately be powering FSX. I also stated quite clearly you will want a 7900GTX 512 or greater video card at the very least.

I completely understand the desire and need for those who will never be upgrading to better than the minimum spec hardware I posted however this nonsense of hacking the textures and terrain is going to make allot of people very unhappy when patches are released. The FSX development team knew exactly what they were doing when they designed the textures and the layouts and patches will be designed around original files so those who have hacked their installs with fixes will most likely end up with a total mess which will probably require a reinstall. Be ready for that.

The software was designed for the future, not the present or the past because hardware goes through a complete cycle to another level every 6 months.

This is real simple…  

1.
I suggest anyone bothered by lags, frames and lack of eye-candy get on the bandwagon with system upgrades, suck it up and spend the cash when the next generation of hardware hits the market and is proven around March. AND even when you do make a leap into better hardware, realize you are flying software designed for 2008-2009.

JUST LIKE FS9 IN 2003 WAS DESIGNED FOR 2005-2006 HARDWARE.

2.
If spending the cash is not possible, suck it up, reduce the sliders back enjoy what you have OR stay with FS9 which will give you the eye candy and performance.

There are going to be quarks and there are going to be visual issues as there is with any software in its infancy. They will get addressed.

If you intend to stay with the hardware you are running right now and not upgrade within the next 6-9 months to a REAL system, suck it up and push the sliders back or stay on FS9.

I run top end systems and even get to play months in advance with products the market has not seen. I can assure you, when it comes to hardware that even come close to ripping through FSX… there ain’t no Freak’in French Fries http://www.zippyvideos.com/141328867632895.html


…and there WILL NOT be any hardware able to peg FSX like FS9 in full glory for at LEAST 1 ½ - 2 years and I will bet by then the add-ons will be such heavy hitters it will be at least 2 before the hardware will render it without problems.


What happens with DX10 will be driven by how much LOD the developer places into the files. It will more than likely not be a miracle visual from M$ because they leave that kind of detail up to the add-on developers and ALWAYS have.

Bed time for me..

 
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Reply #23 - Nov 25th, 2006 at 7:30pm

Brett_Henderson   Offline
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No rosy glasses here..  I see the problems.. I just think they're being exagerated out of aggravation by those not equiped to enjoy it..  Oh well  Roll Eyes

Pointing them out.. probing for fixes is one thing. This seemingly never-ending bash of a product that's pretty darn good is the problem.
 
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Reply #24 - Nov 25th, 2006 at 7:34pm
Nick N   Ex Member

 


Oh.. and have a nice day  Grin
 
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Reply #25 - Nov 25th, 2006 at 7:40pm

Joe_D   Offline
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Quote:
Why is there all this FSX hate? It is really fun! All I see at the moment are people complaining and whining about FSX but they don't think to take a deep breath, relax, and either, fly in a rural (high FPS) area or go back to FS9 and wait to get a hardware update. As you guys say, FS9 IS better with all the add-ons. Wink

Proud FSX user. Smiley

OK this is the common miciception.... that a hardware or OS update will somehow eliminate all the bugs and rewite the FSX code.
It just isn't going to happen.

The most we can hope for is to have the same flawed program running at few more FPS with perhaps a couple of more graphical features to wow the uninformed.

What is need is a serious patch to fix the known issues in addition to the DX10/VISTA patch.

If the majority say that they are satified as is and only need the DFX10/VISTA patch, that is all we will get. Such is marketing.

BTW, I'm currently running an x2 4400, with 2gigs of RAM with a X1800XT.
It's not exactly a low end sys.

However, one ACES member on his blog has admitted that they missed the boat on multi core when they failed to see it's future and instead, relied on single cores to get ever faster.



 

Home airports are KMGJ and KSWF in Orange County, NY&&Stop by and say hello. Smiley
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Reply #26 - Nov 25th, 2006 at 7:48pm

Daube   Offline
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Quote:
JUST LIKE FS9 IN 2003 WAS DESIGNED FOR 2005-2006 HARDWARE.

Nooooo, don't tell that, nobody would believe you, you liar  Grin Grin (Nobody wants to remember, I would say  Wink )
 
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Reply #27 - Nov 25th, 2006 at 7:49pm

Brett_Henderson   Offline
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Quote:
OK this is the common miciception.... that a hardware or OS update will somehow eliminate all the bugs and rewite the FSX code.
It just isn't going to happen.


You're right..  A hardware upgrade or new OS won't debug FSX.. Nobody expects that. But software upgrades/patches will. That's how it works. That's how it's worked for a long time. I don't think I own a piece of hi-end software that hasn't been patched.. several times.. And again.. considering the techno-leap the is FSX.. the TRUE bugs are pretty minimal...
 
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Reply #28 - Nov 25th, 2006 at 7:53pm
an-225   Ex Member

 
Did I say that it will "debug" FSX. No. BUT it will help with perfomance. I got 1 gig of RAM (From 510 so I now have 1534 megs) the other day and it runs like an X-15. FPS is still low but it doesn't lag nearly as much.
 
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Reply #29 - Nov 25th, 2006 at 8:05pm

Brett_Henderson   Offline
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Quote:
I could be wrong but I got the impression that FSX was originally intended to be released after Vista. When Vista ran into problems FSX had to be quickly optimized to run on existing systems. This could explain some of the many problems people are having with it.


I don't know the time-lines.. but I'd bet that's accurate. However.. I can't imagine there was much optimization to make it run on XP, as it would still have been a LONG time before a good chunk of simmers moved from XP to Vista. The double whammy there is that folks reluctant to upgrade hardware.. aren't likely to be forking over another few hundred dollars for Vista too. And who knows.. It probably won't be long after that, that DX11 shows up  Tongue
 
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