Simviation Forum - Question about Vista

Reply #15 - Nov 16^th, 2006 at 2:03am

vololiberista Offline
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First things first. I and many others had upgrade problems with XP where it replaced installed media software with WMP. In other words it disabled exisiting software and this is what caused the action against M(qualcosa)s by the EU. It's not "just" that WMP comes as part of the package. For example so does Internet explorer. I have never used that or outlook express.On that note I've been using Netscape 7 since 2000 and only now are M(qualcosa)s catching up!!!!!!!

Quote:
it comes out unless you are absolutely certain it is the European version. unless of course you want M(qualcosa)s to do your virus checking!!!! (I don't!!!!)

Dizza wrote: Why is that?
Because M(qualcosa)s has up to now refused access to kernel code by third parties. This means that any third party programme like AVG for example will not function. Yes I know that Vista is a completely different platform etc, but I'm not confident to "have to" use M(qualcosa)s's own virus checker. the EU has reminded m(qualcosa)s that this also contravenes the court's decision.
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Reply #16 - Nov 16^th, 2006 at 4:50am

Politically Incorrect Offline
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So MS was sued for including WMP becasue people wouldn't possibly buy another media player?

Are you trying to tell me MS has been sued due to the fact people are too lazy to make up their own mind and their freedom to choose? It is simple to set your default software as Hagar mentioned. And don't forget most software you install will actually change your settings one way or another "forcing" you to use it a certain way until you say otherwise.

Like said before you don't need to use WMP and as for third parties losing money how many use a payware media player to begin with?

All these third party developers are bitching about not making money then maybe they should step up and develop a OS Wink

And for the third party Anti virus companies raising complaints, their software will overtake your system and freedom more so than Windows itself Wink

The EU seems to be against the idea of free enterprise and that is what MS is doing, can they help it that they developed a OS that 90% of the worlds computer user population uses? Can they be blamed for the fact that more software is made to run on that OS which itself has made many third party developers who they are today?
Is it possible that Norton and McAffee are more flamed that their crap software will no longer be bundled with Windows (more likely the case) which means that they will loose money becasue no one buys their crap on purpose.

The way I see it you have a choice you don't like Windows use something else. Of course then we will hear you complaining about how all your software won't run on anything else and that too I guess will be MS's fault that the software developers didn't write programs for other operating systems.

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Reply #17 - Nov 16^th, 2006 at 4:58am

Woodlouse2002 Offline
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Quote:

The EU seems to be against the idea of free enterprise

No. The EU is against a free enterprise becoming a monopoly. If M$ had it's way every programme you ever use would come from them. What the EU have done is just given competing software companies a chance.

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Reply #18 - Nov 16^th, 2006 at 4:59am

vololiberista Offline
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Quote:

So MS was sued for including WMP becasue people wouldn't possibly buy another media player?

Are you trying to tell me MS has been sued due to the fact people are too lazy to make up their own mind and their freedom to choose? It is simple to set your default software as Hagar mentioned. And don't forget most software you install will actually change your settings one way or another "forcing" you to use it a certain way until you say otherwise.

Like said before you don't need to use WMP and as for third parties losing money how many use a payware media player to begin with?

All these third party developers are bitching about not making money then maybe they should step up and develop a OS Wink

And for the third party Anti virus companies raising complaints, their software will overtake your system and freedom more so than Windows itself Wink

The EU seems to be against the idea of free enterprise and that is what MS is doing, can they help it that they developed a OS that 90% of the worlds computer user population uses? Can they be blamed for the fact that more software is made to run on that OS which itself has made many third party developers who they are today?
Is it possible that Norton and McAffee are more flamed that their crap software will no longer be bundled with Windows (more likely the case) which means that they will loose money becasue no one buys their crap on purpose.

The way I see it you have a choice you don't like Windows use something else. Of course then we will hear you complaining about how all your software won't run on anything else and that too I guess will be MS's fault that the software developers didn't write programs for other operating systems.

I don't think that you have really understood the point i made. But you have raised another and that is the different point of view between Europe and America regarding "free enterprise". Europeans see M(qualcosa)s as a world monopoly whereas you see them as free enterprise. I have to say that the case against M(qualcosa)s was tried in the USA under American law.
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Reply #19 - Nov 16^th, 2006 at 6:03am

Hagar Offline
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There seem to be a lot of conflicting views on this subject. I think we need to stick to the facts. To avoid confusion this is what it's all about.

In the US. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/652150.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/2393537.stm

In the EU. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4937840.stm

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Reply #20 - Nov 16^th, 2006 at 9:20am

Politically Incorrect Offline
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Quote:

"Microsoft does not compete on the merits. Microsoft doesn't let users choose ... it chooses itself what users will have as product."

From the link Hagar posted

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4937840.stm

I don't see what that lawyer is talking about, not letting the users choose.
My choices
Firefox
I use Musicmatch (third party) media player
Various third party Email programs not Outlook
Nod32 third party AntiVirus
etc... seems I as a user have many choices.

Another choice I have made as anyone else can is to use Windows Wink

Now to quote the other complaints:
Quote:

Microsoft licensed its operating system more cheaply to computer makers such as Dell and Compaq, if they exclusively installed its software.

Very smart business decision that they try to make sound evil. Most companies will offer great discounts on multiple sales or bulk orders.

Quote:

When IBM refused to drop sales of its own rival operating system and software packages, it lost millions of dollars worth of sales by not receiving the crucial details of Windows 95 until 15 minutes before it launched. Other PC makers had computers with it installed and ready to ship.

Sounds like IBM screwed up themselves

Quote:

But the key element involved the way in which Microsoft forced its Internet Explorer browser to leadership in a market which had been dominated by Netscape's Navigator

Quote:

The trial heard that Microsoft not only gave away Internet Explorer but also "bundled" it into its Windows operating system, forcing manufacturers to pre-load it on to their computers.

Even if users wanted to use Navigator instead, the trial heard that its performance was not as quick, and that Internet Explorer would be triggered as the default browser for a variety of functions.

Its part of the OS you load the OS and you load the features it comes with , performance loss of another browser is crap and any person with the least bit of computer knowledge knows how to change default settings.
Seems the Navigator guys were mad that they got competition. After all was there a fuss over Netscape's dominance prior to IE?

So sorry I don't see any case at all, I am not a MS fanboy although I use and enjoy many of their products, but many I also refuse to use that is my choice. Just like you have a choice you don't like it then go elsewhere there is Apple.

I don't see it as a monopoly MS came in at the right time with a product that no one could match and to this day still can't.

Do you see the Governments getting into sports? You know your favorite team sucks becasue the other team has better players, well better get rid of that teams players becasue it is unfair to the rest, same scenario.

It is a business and that is what businesses do they are in it to dominate and make money, to be in business for any other reason is bound to end in failure.

It is free enterprise , problem is no one has yet been able to come out with the next "Windows" to put MS back down on a even playing field, monopoly it is not, domination it is Wink

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Reply #21 - Nov 16^th, 2006 at 11:42am

vololiberista Offline
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As far as netscape 7 goes. I have been using it since 2000 and it outperforms anything that internet explorer could, can or will do. Only a week or two ago did M(qualcosa)s release a version of explorer that comes close and will be part of Vista. Netscape are already about to release a new version.
M(qualcosa)s may be the leader in terms of browser numbers but they are most definitely back of the queue in terms of performance and quality.
If someone asked me to list the 10 best decisions i made in my life then never to use explorer and outlook would be on that list. They are the cr@@iest and most bug ridden programmes M(qualcosa)s have ever produced!!!
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