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Rolls Royce Merlin Aero Engine (Read 734 times)
Nov 2nd, 2006 at 8:09pm
Flying Trucker   Ex Member

 
Hello all:  Smiley

Quick question:
Does anyone know if the Merlin engine in the Spitfires, Hurricanes, Lancasters, Halifaxes etc....were ever fuel injected.
I believe that in 1939 they all had carburetors and were prone to cutting out doing certain manoeuvers.
If the Spitfire did receive a fuel injection engine was it the Merlin and what year and model of aircraft.

Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug
 
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Reply #1 - Nov 2nd, 2006 at 8:20pm

Woodlouse2002   Offline
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Quote:
Hello all:  Smiley

Quick question:
Does anyone know if the Merlin engine in the Spitfires, Hurricanes, Lancasters, Halifaxes etc....were ever fuel injected.
I believe that in 1939 they all had carburetors and were prone to cutting out doing certain manoeuvers.
If the Spitfire did receive a fuel injection engine was it the Merlin and what year and model of aircraft.

Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug

Fuel injected from the MkV onwards I believe. Not sure which Merlin Mk that was though.
 

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Reply #2 - Nov 2nd, 2006 at 8:34pm
Flying Trucker   Ex Member

 
I checked several sites that had information on the Merlin Aero Engine and found only one that mentioned fuel injection being introduced in 1943.

That is all it said, nothing on types or makes of aircraft.

It is funny how none of the other sites mentioned 1943 as the year fuel injection was introduced or even if the Merlin Aero Engine even had that modification done.

Cheers....Happy Landings....Doug
 
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Reply #3 - Nov 2nd, 2006 at 8:53pm

Hagar   Offline
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I'm not convinced the Merlin had conventional fuel injection. The later examples had Bendix-Stromburg or SU carburetters injecting fuel direct to the supercharger.
http://www.spitfiresociety.demon.co.uk/engines.htm

I'm sure Ozzy will sort this one out.
 

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Reply #4 - Nov 3rd, 2006 at 3:26am

ozzy72   Offline
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No Merlin was ever fuel injected. The 66 series onwards had an injection carb. (as mentioned by Doug) but there wasn't proper fuel injection.
The first Spit with fuel injection would be a Griffon powered one (I think the Griffon 62 if memory serves but I'll check).
 

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Reply #5 - Nov 3rd, 2006 at 3:33am

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Thanks to Doug asking this question I finally found the answer to something that's always puzzled me. Why do the Merlin & Griffon rotate in opposite directions?

From my previous link: Quote:
This resulted from a decision by a committee of The Society of British Aircraft Constructors to aim for a "universal powerplant". The rationale was that any aircraft with a powerplant of around 2000HP should be able to have virtually any available comparable engine replaced should the original fail. Consequently direction of rotation of the Griffon had to change to match the engines of Bristol, Napier and Armstrong-Siddley (the Merlin, which was in widespread use at that time, especially by the USA- whose aero engines all turned the same way as the Merlin- stayed as it was).
 

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Reply #6 - Nov 3rd, 2006 at 3:54am

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Don't forget Doug that some Merlins also spun the 'wrong way' Wink
The 130/131 series pairing for the De Havilland Hornet springs to mind, not to mention the Meteor tank engine Wink
 

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Reply #7 - Nov 3rd, 2006 at 4:25pm
Flying Trucker   Ex Member

 
Interesting, now I shall have to find that site and see if I can find out more about the Merlin and fuel injection because it did mention the date 1943 when the Merlin was fuel injected.

Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug
 
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Reply #8 - Nov 3rd, 2006 at 5:35pm

Hagar   Offline
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It's mentioned on Wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-Royce_Merlin
I think they're referring to the modified carb injection system fitted to later Merlins & the Griffon. This is not the same as the direct fuel injection system as used on the DB 601.

PS. They could be confusing it with water/methanol injection.
 

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Reply #9 - Nov 3rd, 2006 at 6:18pm

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Doug trust me NO FUEL INJECTION ON MERLINS!!!! Dr. Oz knows about these things being slightly Merlin-Mad 8) 8) 8)
 

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Reply #10 - Nov 4th, 2006 at 11:12am
Flying Trucker   Ex Member

 
Thanks folks as some of these sites over simplify some topics and leave out valuable information.  Smiley

Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug
 
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Reply #11 - Nov 4th, 2006 at 8:20pm

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Quote:
Doug trust me NO FUEL INJECTION ON MERLINS!!!! Dr. Oz knows about these things being slightly Merlin-Mad 8) 8) 8)


Question - and on this I know nothing - would the carburettor injection have been on the RR Merlins or would the Packard Merlins have had "true" fuel injection?
 

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Reply #12 - Nov 5th, 2006 at 4:46am

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Both Felix as the 266 (Packard Merlin) was just a variation of the RR 66 Wink
 

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Reply #13 - Nov 5th, 2006 at 5:56am

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Quote:
Both Felix as the 266 (Packard Merlin) was just a variation of the RR 66 Wink

Can you be more specific.  This seems to contradict your previous statement of "NO FUEL INJECTION ON MERLINS!!!!".  Not knowing a lot about engines I must admit to being thoroughly confused.

The Packard Merlin is also known as the Packard  V-1650.  According to this article it was manufactured in different models from the -1 to -25 :
http://www.unlimitedexcitement.com/Pride%20of%20Pay%20n%20Pak/Rolls-Royce%20Merl...
Quote:
Induction:

A Bendix Stromberg PD18 injection carburetor is used on the V-1650-9 engine.  This double-barrel twin-boost venturi carburetor has an air metering unit consisting of the two throat throttle body with boosted venturies, a fuel metering unit consisting of a regulator which provides a fuel head proportional to air flow and metering jets which provide fuel flow proportional to fuel head (and thus airflow), and an injection nozzle which directs the discharge of fuel into the eye of the supercharger and provides a reference metering pressure for the fuel metering unit.  The system includes and accelerator pump to provide fuel during momentary interruptions as power settings are changed, an automatic mixture control which adjusts the airflow metering signal to compensate for temperature and altitude, a manual mixture control which changes jet selections and bypasses the automatic mixture control, an automatic fuel enrichment valve to increase fuel flow under high demand, and an ADI derichment valve which leans the mixture when a pressure signal is applied to the valve.

Fuel pressure is from an engine driven eccentric-vane type pump with an integral pressure regulator.  An electric boost pump of the same type provides initial priming and for racing applications runs while the engine is on.

It also says this further down the page: Quote:
V-1650-23 XP-82/P-82/B 1520/3000/SL
1600/3000/24,000 Similar to -11 except fitted with PD (Bendix Injection) carburetor in place of SD (speed density) carburetor
V-1650-25 P-82B/XP-82 1490/3000/SL
1470/3000/23,000 Similar to -21 except fitted with PD carburetor instead of SD unit


On this page is a list of all major models of the Merlin. http://www.spitfireart.com/merlin_engines.html From what it says the first Packard-built version was the V-1650-1 & based on the Merlin XX.  The Packard-built Merlin 66 is the V-1650-7. Quote:
Merlin 60 series

First Merlins with two-speed, two-stage supercharger and intercooling. Packard produced engines for US aircraft designated V-1650-3 (similar to Merlin 63) and V-1650-7 (..Merlin 66). Packard engines for Commonwealth use designated Merlin 69 and Merlin 266. Major variants include Merlin 61, Merlin 63, Merlin 64, and Merlin 66.

I think the confusion here is between direct fuel-injection used on the DB 601/605 where the fuel is injected straight into the cylinders & the carburettor injection system as used on later Merlins. I still don't know if any versions of the Merlin/V-1650 had a proper direct fuel injection system.

Note: A carburettor mixes air with the fuel before it enters the cylinders.
 

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Reply #14 - Nov 5th, 2006 at 6:19am

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Sorry Doug I was only writing about "in-service" engines. The 266 was the most relevant as it was the Packard version of the 66.
There still isn't any fuel injected Merlin that I can find. I've been pouring over books and websites of prototypes and all sorts without any success... everything says "CARBS"....
 

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