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Gets VERRRRY Windy (Read 1606 times)
Oct 26th, 2006 at 7:30pm

chrisco17   Offline
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Does anyone else have this issue?
I have no glass in the windows of the default aircraft,
but the aircraft I imported from FS9 has the window (canopy in this case). Top is default FSX, bottom is imported from FS9.
...

...

All of my default aircraft are like this.
???
 
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Reply #1 - Oct 26th, 2006 at 9:57pm

Katahu   Offline
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I don't have that problem at all. Did you check your video drivers? Someone once pointed out that certain older versions of the video drivers work better than the new ones.
 
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Reply #2 - Oct 27th, 2006 at 2:23am
Bindoe   Ex Member

 
What video card do you have?
 
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Reply #3 - Oct 27th, 2006 at 10:31am

chrisco17   Offline
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Quote:
What video card do you have?


It says on my signature that I have a GeForce 3, but I couldn't get the graphics to show clearly at all with that card, so put my BFG Asylum GeForce FX5200 128 card in.

Now I can actually read the guages in the VC, and see the RADAR in Flight Controller mode.

Either way, I know that the 128 isn't enough, but I should still be able to see everything, just maybe slower.

Quote:
I don't have that problem at all. Did you check your video drivers? Someone once pointed out that certain older versions of the video drivers work better than the new ones.


Maybe that is my problem, I have the latest driver installed.
That is unfortunate that you need old drivers, especially when they alway say "uodate to the latest drivers"
 
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Reply #4 - Oct 28th, 2006 at 2:36am

commoner   Offline
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......mm.....I have the same "problem".......... my c172 from FS9 shows glass in fsx but the default fsx aircraft are windowless............just wondering though how  it can be a drivers issue if imported a/c work and others not............I would have thought in that case imported planes would be windowless too...............puzzling!......... commoner ???
 
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Reply #5 - Oct 28th, 2006 at 4:15am

pepper_airborne   Offline
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The winows are made up from a shader material from what i have seen, it could be that the 5200 doesnt support it.
 
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Reply #6 - Oct 28th, 2006 at 5:24am

commoner   Offline
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Quote:
The windows are made up from a shader material from what i have seen, it could be that the 5200 doesnt support it.


..Then why are FS9 imports ok? .........commoner Wink
 
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Reply #7 - Oct 28th, 2006 at 5:26am
RollerBall   Ex Member

 
Because maybe they do glass in a different way....??  ???
 
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Reply #8 - Oct 28th, 2006 at 7:00am

commoner   Offline
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...mm....yes that could be so.......... Just emailed M$ with the query and got the usual response that they will try to get back within 24hrs..........Not holding my breath on that one............commoner Grin
 
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Reply #9 - Oct 28th, 2006 at 7:01am

Ashar   Ex Member
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...mm....yes that could be so.......... Just emailed M$ with the query and got the usual response that they will try to get back within 24hrs..........Not holding my breath on that one............commoner Grin


They never do... Tongue
 
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Reply #10 - Oct 28th, 2006 at 9:04am

chrisco17   Offline
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The probability that the 5200 does not support a new way of rendering glass sounds pretty logical to me.
 
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Reply #11 - Oct 28th, 2006 at 9:47pm

Fr. Bill   Offline
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Quote:
..Then why are FS9 imports ok? .........commoner Wink



Any FS9 model that used an untextured Material will be totally invisible in FSX.

Any FS9 model that used a textured Material will be visible.

FSX default models who have invisible glass is the fault of the video card not supporting at least Pixel Shader 1.3 or better.
 
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Reply #12 - Oct 28th, 2006 at 10:07pm

SkyNoz   Offline
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Did you overwrite any file from FS9 into FSX?  ???
 
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Reply #13 - Oct 29th, 2006 at 3:02am

commoner   Offline
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Quote:
Any FS9 model that used an untextured Material will be totally invisible in FSX.

Any FS9 model that used a textured Material will be visible.



..mm...care to explain textured Material and untextured material?............never heard that mentioned before....maybe give me an example of a plane using an untextured Material...........commoner;)
 
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Reply #14 - Oct 29th, 2006 at 6:55am

Hagar   Offline
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Just a thought but maybe this is related to your problem. http://www.simviation.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=FSX;action=display;num=116...
You could try temporarily removing  the xxx_reflections.dds from the Texture folder of offending aircraft to see if that fixes it.

I've seen little bugs like this in the past & the problem is usually related to video card/drivers & incompatability with the current version of DX. I believe an updated version of DX9.0c is now available from the Windows Update site. You might like to try it but I can't guarantee it won't make things worse. Unless anyone comes up with better ideas it might be safer to leave well alone & put up with it for now.
 
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Reply #15 - Oct 29th, 2006 at 7:49am

Daube   Offline
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Quote:
..mm...care to explain textured Material and untextured material?............never heard that mentioned before....maybe give me an example of a plane using an untextured Material...........commoner;)


Here is a try:
In the first one, you are using a fully transparent piece of 3D mesh, and over it you display a semi-transparent texture.

In the second one, you are not using any texture, instead you use directly a semi-transparent piece of 3D mesh. This way is less good-looking than the texture, because you can't display any details on the glass (like color variations, for dirty effect).

Default aircrafts in FSX use semi-transparent textures with a technology that your card is not able to display. So you see no texture, just the 3D mesh, which is fully transparent, that is invisible.
 
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Reply #16 - Oct 29th, 2006 at 7:51am

Daube   Offline
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PS: the plane with transparent cockpits in FS98 all use the semi transparent untextured windows (3D mesh is set to semi-transparency).

The mirage F1 from Kirk Olson use a semi transparent texture, which lets you see those strange details on the glass in the older versions.
 
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Reply #17 - Oct 29th, 2006 at 7:02am

chrisco17   Offline
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Quote:
Did you overwrite any file from FS9 into FSX?  ???


No I didn't overwrite anything.

Quote:
Just a thought but maybe this is related to your problem. http://www.simviation.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=FSX;action=display ;num=1161961492
You could try temporarily removing  the xxx_reflections.dds from the Texture folder of offending aircraft to see if that fixes it.

I've seen little bugs like this in the past & the problem is usually related to video card/drivers & incompatability with the current version of DX. I believe an updated version of DX9.0c is now available from the Windows Update site. You might like to try it but I can't guarantee it won't make things worse. Unless anyone comes up with better ideas it might be safer to leave well alone & put up with it for now. 


I will try updating my DirectX I can always go back with system restore if it makes it worse.

But I believe I will find that my card does not support the new shading of the glass as n4gix and Daube have explained very nicely.
 
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Reply #18 - Oct 30th, 2006 at 7:13am

commoner   Offline
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.......OK.....well despite Ashar saying that Microsoft never reply to queries  Tongue ....I got the following which though it doesn't help with the No Glass issue, at least throws up one or two interesting points, not least that there are significant programming differences between The North American and other versions....mmm.... Also sounds like they have been inundated with requests for help with FSX. Wonder why that is? Smiley  Here is the email in it's entirety for anyone interested...........


Hello Derek,

Thank you for contacting Microsoft Online Customer Service.

I apologize for the delay in our response to your issue. Due to an unexpected increase in requests, our response time is longer than usual. I appreciate your patience in this regard.   

I understand that you are experiencing issues with Flight Simulator X. I realize the importance of the issue and will assist you in reaching the appropriate resource.

Unfortunately, I am unable to assist you with your support request.  At this time, our Support Professionals are only trained to troubleshoot issues with North American versions of our products whereas the Support Professionals at the local Microsoft subsidiaries are trained to troubleshoot issues with localized versions of our software.

Derek, from the information you have provided in your message, I found that you are located in United Kingdom. If you have purchased the Microsoft product in United Kingdom, your best resource for support is the Microsoft United Kingdom subsidiary.

There are significant programming differences between North America and localized versions of software. You will be best assisted by the subsidiary that specializes in the version. You can locate contact information for the United Kingdom subsidiary from the following web site:
http://www.microsoft.com/worldwide

I hope your issue gets resolved soon and appreciate your patience in this regard.

Thank you for using Microsoft products and services.

Jaya
Microsoft Online Customer Service Representative

If you have any feedback about your Online Customer Service experience, please e-mail my manager, Abhijit Rao, at managers@microsoft.com
 
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Reply #19 - Oct 30th, 2006 at 10:57am

Fr. Bill   Offline
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Quote:
..mm...care to explain textured Material and untextured material?............never heard that mentioned before....maybe give me an example of a plane using an untextured Material...........commoner;)


That would be difficult...

The term "Material" refers to the collection of textures and properties applied to any part within the modeling program, such as Max or GMax.

Every "part" in the modeling program must have a Material applied to it prior to exporting as an FS model.

Each Material has a list of properties, such as Specular Color, Diffuse Color, Ambient Color, Gloss, Opacity, Self-Illumination, etc.

Each Material may also have specific textures assigned to override the basic property values, such as:

Diffuse Color = fuselage_t.bmp
Specular Color = fuselage_t.bmp
Self-Illumination = fuselage_t_L.bmp

etc.

In FS9, a part could be exported using only the Material's Properties, and it would display in the sim.  For example, "glass" could be exported using Specular Color of "dark gray" RGB values, with 60% opacity, and Specular Level of 80, which would show up in the sim as a "dark gray glass with specular highlights."

The same part will simply be invisible in FSX, as FSX requires that all parts have explicitly assigned textures in the model's source file prior to compiling...

Hence, it is a problem that is not solvable outside of having the original source file, adding the missing texture assignments and recompiling.

HOWEVER! It is critical to note that the above applies only to imported FS9 (or FS2002) models.

Invisible parts for FSX built models is a video card shader issue, which is a completely seperate issue, and solvable only at the hardware/driver level... Wink
 
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Reply #20 - Oct 30th, 2006 at 12:12pm

commoner   Offline
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...mmm...thanks for all that .......doesn't really mean much to my old braincells but thanks for trying...........commoner Wink
 
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Reply #21 - Oct 31st, 2006 at 1:13pm

chrisco17   Offline
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I think it is safe to assume that it is definately a video card issue.
Thank you all for your help.
(P.S. this my first multi-page post  8) )
 
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