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Space (Read 1658 times)
Oct 24
th
, 2006 at 4:43pm
Ravang
Ex Member
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As you probably know FSX does have space in it if you click on the map button and type in 99999999 (8, 9's) you will be as high as the sim will let you go. But the bad news you can not controll your aircraft and the engines shutdown and will not restart, my question is this have the crap do you make aircraft controllable in space in the sim? I tried in a Star Wars fighter and no luck at all, then in the Baron worst.
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Reply #1 -
Oct 24
th
, 2006 at 4:46pm
KDSM
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The sim is modelling aircraft in space correctly
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Reply #2 -
Oct 24
th
, 2006 at 4:47pm
Hagar
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If you want a space simulator I suggest you try Orbiter. The best part is that it's free.
http://orbit.medphys.ucl.ac.uk/orbit.html
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Reply #3 -
Oct 24
th
, 2006 at 5:19pm
pepper_airborne
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Because there is no, or to thin are to carry the aircraft, it will fall down.
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Reply #4 -
Oct 24
th
, 2006 at 5:49pm
flyboy 28
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Conventional airplanes need air to create lift. In case you haven't noticed, space has no air.
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Reply #5 -
Oct 24
th
, 2006 at 6:10pm
vololiberista
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Quite why you want to fly a/c at impossible altitudes is beyond me. Space is for spacecraft. So get a space sim.
Vololiberista
Andiamo in Italia&&
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Reply #6 -
Oct 24
th
, 2006 at 6:35pm
Fozzer
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The Carburettors feeding the engines in my Beech Baron thrive on fresh air...
...!
...and there's not a lot of that up in space...
...!
Paul...
...!
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Reply #7 -
Oct 24
th
, 2006 at 7:08pm
Ravang
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No,no,no I just was wondering if it was possible to make an X-15, or other high alt. fighters that could be controllable at that high, well maybe not at 9999999ft. up but just barly outside the earth. I'm not talking about a space sim here. And yes i know how an airplane flys thank you very much
(I should being a Ret. RAF pilot)
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Reply #8 -
Oct 24
th
, 2006 at 10:59pm
Daube
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Quite why you want to fly a/c at impossible altitudes is beyond me. Space is for spacecraft. So get a space sim.
Vololiberista
And because spacrafts can fly, there are welcome in a flight sim. And remember, space flight IS flight, just exactely the same flight as with your everyday plane.
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Reply #9 -
Oct 24
th
, 2006 at 11:04pm
Katahu
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And remember, space flight IS flight, just exactely the same flight as with your everyday plane.
Except there's no atmosphere for your engines to breathe, RCS controls are needed as the wings are useless in a hard-vaccum environment, and you need a nacigational computer to help you calculation tragectories unless your brainy enough to calculate the path in your head.
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Reply #10 -
Oct 24
th
, 2006 at 11:10pm
Daube
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Except there's no atmosphere for your engines to breathe, RCS controls are needed as the wings are useless in a hard-vaccum environment, and you need a nacigational computer to help you calculation tragectories unless your brainy enough to calculate the path in your head.
Yes, but still this is normal flight
On a physics point of view, nothing new, just some parameters changes, like gaz density, thrust and so.
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Reply #11 -
Oct 25
th
, 2006 at 2:18am
vololiberista
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And because spacrafts can fly, there are welcome in a flight sim. And remember, space flight IS flight, just exactely the same flight as with your everyday plane.
Yes, but still this is normal flight
On a physics point of view, nothing new, just some parameters changes, like gaz density, thrust and so.
Sorry you're wrong! Space craft don't fly!! They are projectiles. They DO NOT have "Normal flight" as you say. They follow parabolic trajectories and are entirely dependant on the thrust input which only increases the angle of the trajectory which in space and here on Earth is influenced by gravity. THEY DO NOT FLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Vololiberista
Andiamo in Italia&&
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Reply #12 -
Oct 25
th
, 2006 at 2:28am
Daube
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Sorry you're wrong! Space craft don't fly!! They are projectiles. They DO NOT have "Normal flight" as you say. They follow parabolic trajectories and are entirely dependant on the thrust input which only increases the angle of the trajectory which in space and here on Earth is influence by gravity. THEY DO NOT FLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Vololiberista
EXACTELY like a normal plane in atmosphere, excepted that this projectile receives some drag from the gaz.
I'm talking about the physics point of view, or the "flight model" if you prefer.
Space flight is exactly like atmosphere flight, but the forces induced by the surrounding gaz are then inexistent, and have to be replaced by engines thrust.
That means that you don't need a spacesim to do space flight.
A flight sim that does not simulated space flight is incomplete. A Spacesim that does not simulate atmosphere flight is incomplete. We already had a discussion about that on another topic.
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Reply #13 -
Oct 25
th
, 2006 at 3:30am
vololiberista
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EXACTELY like a normal plane in atmosphere, excepted that this projectile receives some drag from the gaz.
I'm talking about the physics point of view, or the "flight model" if you prefer.
Space flight is exactly like atmosphere flight, but the forces induced by the surrounding gaz are then inexistent, and have to be replaced by engines thrust.
That means that you don't need a spacesim to do space flight.
A flight sim that does not simulated space flight is incomplete. A Spacesim that does not simulate atmosphere flight is incomplete. We already had a discussion about that on another topic.
WRONG AGAIN!!! I suggest that you read up on aerodynamics and ballistics before questioning the sciences. Projectiles and space craft are affected by the friction of the air and gravity. They ARE NOT aircraft and follow ballistic science NOT aerodynamic OK!!!!!
Andiamo in Italia&&
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Reply #14 -
Oct 25
th
, 2006 at 3:50am
Ashar
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Conventional airplanes need air to create lift. In case you haven't noticed, space has no air.
This just made my day
&&
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Reply #15 -
Oct 25
th
, 2006 at 3:56am
Daube
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WRONG AGAIN!!! I suggest that you read up on aerodynamics and ballistics before questioning the sciences. Projectiles and space craft are affected by the friction of the air and gravity. They ARE NOT aircraft and follow ballistic science NOT aerodynamic OK!!!!!
Before trying to give lessons to anybody and making yourself ridiculous, I suggest you read some physics books about modelisation of forces, movements etc...
Then eventually, you could try to implement a simulator program to achieve your knowledge.
Finally, we may be able to discuss together in a more serious way.
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Reply #16 -
Oct 25
th
, 2006 at 4:44am
pepper_airborne
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If im correct Daube is saying that in the simulator it works as a convetional aircraft. Am i right there?
http://white-line.org/&&
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Reply #17 -
Oct 25
th
, 2006 at 4:58am
Daube
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If im correct Daube is saying that in the simulator it works as a convetional aircraft. Am i right there?
Not exactely. I was speaking about flight modeling and general physics, not specifically about FS.
There is another simulator which is done with a real physic model, I never remember if it's Orbiter or XPlane, and lets you display the forces currently applied to the "craft" you pilot, either in space or in the atmosphere. It helps a lot understanding what really happens.
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Reply #18 -
Oct 25
th
, 2006 at 5:00am
pepper_airborne
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I heard that too, i believe it was X-plane.
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Reply #19 -
Oct 25
th
, 2006 at 5:17am
Bindoe
Ex Member
Quote:
Sorry you're wrong! Space craft don't fly!! They are projectiles. They DO NOT have "Normal flight" as you say. They follow parabolic trajectories and are entirely dependant on the thrust input which only increases the angle of the trajectory which in space and here on Earth is influenced by gravity. THEY DO NOT FLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Vololiberista
Uh. It's called the X-15, A-12 (and its varients), Dynasaur, Aurora, Boeing X-43, ACTS, U2, Space shuttle and NASP.
Although some of them can't fly into space, they are all capable, or rumored to be capable of flying above 100 000 feet. The only ones that can't fly into space are the U2, and the A-12.
So there, it dosn't matter if the space ships are aircraft or space craft, because there are them.
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Reply #20 -
Oct 25
th
, 2006 at 6:21am
vololiberista
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If it has wings its an aeroplane and therefore flies in air! If a spacecraft doesn't have wings it can ONLY fly ballistically.
Andiamo in Italia&&
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Reply #21 -
Oct 25
th
, 2006 at 6:28am
Daube
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If it has wings its an aeroplane and therefore flies in air! If a spacecraft doesn't have wings it can ONLY fly ballistically.
Only problem is: as soon as you have an engine, even a single one, you're not ballistic anymore.
For example, a stone that you have thronw away is flying ballistic. Also, a missile wihtout wings that runs out of fuel flies ballistic. But while its engine works, it's not ballistic yet.
Now, to spaceships without wings, it's the same thing: If they have no engines at all, then they fly ballistic, that is like a stone. But if they still have their engines, then they do not fly ballistic.
And about what you certainely intended to say: a Spaceship in orbit is flying ballistic. A spaceship going to orbit or leaving the orbit is not ballistic anymore.
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Reply #22 -
Oct 25
th
, 2006 at 6:49am
Hagar
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You two can argue & hurl insults at each other for as long as you like but it all comes down to this. If FSX has no default orbiter to base the "flight dynamics" on there's not much chance of simulated space flight being possible. The FS flight model has always been for conventional aircraft. I don't see that changing.
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Reply #23 -
Oct 25
th
, 2006 at 6:52am
Ravang
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Thank You for answering my question. What have I done, lol
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Reply #24 -
Oct 25
th
, 2006 at 7:01am
Bindoe
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If it has wings its an aeroplane and therefore flies in air! If a spacecraft doesn't have wings it can ONLY fly ballistically.
What about the space shuttle? What about NASP?
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Reply #25 -
Oct 25
th
, 2006 at 7:07am
Daube
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You two can argue & hurl insults at each other for as long as you like but it all comes down to this. If FSX has no default orbiter to base the "flight dynamics" on there's not much chance of simulated space flight being possible. The FS flight model has always been for conventional aircraft. I don't see that changing.
That's right unfortunately. So far, we do not know if there is any possibility to simulate a rocket engine in FSX, nor the rocket orientation of the aircraft body, so those discussions are quite useless.
Let's hope the new SDKs will allow some gauges to do the trick...
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Reply #26 -
Oct 25
th
, 2006 at 7:40am
vololiberista
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What about the space shuttle? What about NASP?
The Space shuttle has wings so when it is surrounded by air it acts aerodynamically BUT when it is in space it is nothing more than a ballistic missile. You CANNOT fly in space PERIOD
Andiamo in Italia&&
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Oct 25
th
, 2006 at 7:52am
Fozzer
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Thank You for answering my question. What have I done, lol
I'll tell you what you have done...
...
...you have opened a can of worms, allowed a selection of "Newbies" in, and released examples of the very worst of humanity into a Flight Sim Forum, to create alarm and despondency amongst the Regular Members....
....!
A rare occurrence, since the birth of Simviation...
...!
Paul...Now keeping well out of the various on-going FSX Forum arguments/slanging match...8)...!
P.S....off to the Sim V "Cafe" Forum for a nice, relaxing, cup of tea and a bun...
...!
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Reply #28 -
Oct 25
th
, 2006 at 7:57am
Bindoe
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Lifting bodies have no wings yet they fly? Are they aircraft? Or are they space craft?
YAY LOGIC!!11
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Reply #29 -
Oct 25
th
, 2006 at 8:11am
JBaymore
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I beleive that the [ENGINE] configuration file in fs2004 had the option of "rocket". If that is carried over and actually functions... that opens up add on development of low orbit spacecraft.
Why would Microsoft allow such altitudes in the sim engine if they did not intend there to eventually be access to those altitudes?
best,
...................john
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Reply #30 -
Oct 25
th
, 2006 at 8:15am
Sniperman
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The Space shuttle has wings so when it is surrounded by air it acts aerodynamically BUT when it is in space it is nothing more than a ballistic missile. You CANNOT fly in space PERIOD
This whole pointless arguement was started by saying "fly in space", let it go, I meen come on......
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