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Got 2D cockpits in my FSX Demo.

Matt

Daube is talking about side view windows in 2D panels, not the panels themselves. These were introduced in FS2000 as the default aircraft had no DVC or even a VC due to the graphics engine not supporting interior views. I suspect the 2D panel will eventually become reundant.

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Yes I was about to write that
Of course, some will complain about the extra-cost, but I see it exactely in the same way as those modern joysticks or steering wheels with separated pedals, that made people used to gamepad or keyboard complain as well

For the side views, it was the origin of the complaints, but this whole discussion is actually focus on ALL the panel.

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Indeed Paul. That's always seemed the way to go to me & I'm surprised it's taken so long. I've already seen a few 3rd party aircraft for FS9 with no 2D panel at all.

PS. It's supposed to be "As real as it gets" & I never thought that 2D panels were realistic.  I think you either love 'em or hate 'em.

I only use the VC for taking shots...

All of my flying is done with the 2D panel...

Cheers,
Ashar (2D Panel All the WAY)

I've suddenly remembered another reason why I like 2D Panels....

In the Panel Folder they appear as .bmp files which can be loaded into Paint Shop Pro and the X-Y location in which to allow me to add another dial, switch, radio, etc, is presented.
I then add the object to Panel Notepad file giving the X-Y coordinates*.
(I do it all the time)......!

I dont think this can be done so easily, directly in 3D Virtual Cockpit panels...?

Paul.....Hands up for 2D panels!........!

*..Don't argue....it's the way I do it... ...!

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Sure it's convenient, but modifying the shape of a panel to include more switches is not realistic at all, in fact this is anti-realistic, since the switches are not in the correct place any more.

For the comment about the trim position, gears position etc... in the forward VC view, don't forget that in the VC you can move you head briefly to look down and check this stuff, just like a real pilot would lower his eyes for a second to check everything.

I understand that 2D panels ease the flight a lot, since you get everything you need directly on the screen without having to look for it. But personnaly, FS2004 wa my first "real" introduction to detailled VC, and I remember I was really having fun discovering that this or this switch was hidden behind the yoke or on the left of the panel in real life. In the 2D panel you don't get that "pilot environment" feeling.

Additionnaly, when it comes to looking outside, I really like the fact that I'm able to approach a runway on the right (or the left) of my plane while keeping an eye on the gauges. In 2D cockpit, you cannot get 2D working gauges when you're looking 45 degrees right. The same applies (and may even be a better example) to formation flying, when you look toward the followed plane without loosing your gauges. This is not possible in 2D cockpit.

Finally, the track IR is really eliminating all the "problems" linked to the manipulations of the point of view. If a real pilot as to look at the switches hiddent behind his yoke, he will just put his head forward so that he can see them. With the track-IR, you actually do exactely that, just like the real pilot, that is: realistic.

But I mean, even without the track IR, simply using modules like F1view or active camera would allow you to move your head quickly enough in the VC. And now FSX is coming, and it will allow you to add as many view points in your VC as you want, so nothing will prevent you from adding one view in front of the instruments (for easier handling, like the radio stuff mentionned earlier in this post for example), far from the instruments to get better view, left-right cockpit place, etc... Just like you would bring different 2D panel parts in FS9.

By replacing the spare slot gauge by the radio gauge. 
Of course, the panel designer has to think about this upgrade possibility first

Ok, this IS an argument, I admit.
Unfortunately, my knowledge in VC modelling is almost non existent, and additionnaly I don't have the sim anymore to make tests, so I'm afraid I won't be able to give you conter-arguments on this one 

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LOL.......!

Fozzer HATES arguments... ...!

Re: In the Panel Folder it looks like the virtual panels/cockpits are complex .CAB files unlike the 2D panels which are simple .BMP "pictures".

Will be interesting for some feedback from 3D cockpit designers as you suggest... ...!

Cheers Daube......!

Paul...in a happy mood... ...!

To start this off....... has anyone verified with Microsoft that the 2-D side views are NOT actually available in the new version?  I beleive that I saw on one of the MSDN ACES team blogs that the 2-D cockpits are still there..... just not by default....you have to change to them.

My own 2 cents on this thought..........

Being a simpit builder/flyer..... I had planned on using those two 2-D side views for the "side windows" in the simpit.  Hopefully they are still there in FSX.  If not...... "the pit" may be staying on fs2004  .

Now that I am home from a two month international trip..... at some point... I have to download the beta/demo and check it out myself.

best,

....................john

I've re-read the original topic again.
MS has NOT removed the 2D panels.
The problem ONLY conerns the side view, which show the VC side-views instead of 2D side views if I have understood correctly.

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Fozzer has played around with all sorts of things in his rich and decidedly varied past, many of which are totally unmentionable on a family forum. However, he has never been known to play around with his VC files and I doubt that this situaion will change even with the advent of the upcoming FSX  ???

Hi, you can add gauges as easely to a vc as you would into a 2d.

of course this only works in flat vc panels, I mean, all those vc's that have 3d "placements" for the gauges don't allow this, I mean, they do, but the gauge has to be exactly the same size as the 3d space it "falls" into.

I've done this myself.

The VC is just  a flat blank platfrom where you can drop the gause you want...

As for the whole 2d/3d debate...

I'm in favour of the 3d panels...they are the future...I'm sure..

1. The smoothness is no longer a problem, in fact, if you look at the realair spit, it has smoother gause than most 2d panels...

2. The side views that people want to use in the simpits...well just use the 3d view...fsx will allow you to define several 3d views. This means that it will even work better for simpits, because you can choose exactly the angle of the view to match your own simpit, and another grea advantage is that in a 3d view, the gause in the view will still work.

So, if you choose a side view for your simpit, the gauges in that particular sideview will be working, wich I think is a great advantage....

3. (and last) the thing about 3d panels having switches that are hidden behind the yoke or whatever...err...isn't that what you have in real cockpits? Some switches are hidden and the pilot has to "reach" for them...

If you use trackIr this problem disapears, because you can lean or look to a switch as real pilots do, and if you cant read any particular gauge, you just move your head a bit further in the direction of that gauge, again as real pilots do...

As for the money people complain about buying a trackIr...well, I don't see the point of this when people spend a LOT of money in yokes, pedals, throttles, joysticks, new monitors, etc,etc...

TrackIr is not that expensive and it will give you an imersion that I just can't describe...nowadays, I just can't fly without trackIr it IS a HUGE boost in imersion...

few...that was a long post

cheers

Hmm, yes, I suppose people with simpits would have the gauges custom made, and so, no need for them to be working in the "window view"..

Now, about the framerates, I don't know, but probably it would make the system work harder I suppose...