Simviation Forum - About 2D cockpits...

Reply #15 - Aug 28^th, 2006 at 12:15pm

Daube Offline
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By replacing the spare slot gauge by the radio gauge. Grin

Of course, the panel designer has to think about this upgrade possibility first Wink

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Reply #16 - Aug 28^th, 2006 at 12:46pm

Fozzer Offline
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Quote:

By replacing the spare slot gauge by the radio gauge. Grin

Of course, the panel designer has to think about this upgrade possibility first Wink

In this case a "spare slot gauge" doesn't exist.
It is merely part of the photograph of the real panel.... Wink

...!

But my example does show how easy it is to add ones own various instruments, etc, to an existing 2D panel where there is room, which may be impossible to achieve on an existing 3D Virtual Cockpit panel.

(Note my 2D add-on AP gauge doesn't automatically appear on the 3D panel which shows that the 3D panel, once designed, is not easily modified by the user).

Cheers... Grin

...!

Paul.... 8)...!

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Reply #17 - Aug 28^th, 2006 at 1:01pm

Daube Offline
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Ok, this IS an argument, I admit.
Unfortunately, my knowledge in VC modelling is almost non existent, and additionnaly I don't have the sim anymore to make tests, so I'm afraid I won't be able to give you conter-arguments on this one Sad

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Reply #18 - Aug 28^th, 2006 at 1:06pm

Daube Offline
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PS: If I remember well, on a panel like this one (flat), in the VC you would have a bitmap for the center part of the panel, and this bitmap would have some "holes", transparent parts, filled with the "transparency" color.

So in such a case, nothing prevents you from editing the panel bitmap to add an additionnal transparent zone (by simply drawing a rectangle with the transparency color), and then place the needed gauge in that hole. I believe the coordonates of the gauges in the VC are not that difficult to understand, nor to manipulate

Any VC modeler out there to confirm ? ... or infirm ? Tongue

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Reply #19 - Aug 28^th, 2006 at 1:20pm

Fozzer Offline
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Quote:

Ok, this IS an argument.....

LOL....

...!

Fozzer HATES arguments... Grin

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Re: In the Panel Folder it looks like the virtual panels/cockpits are complex .CAB files unlike the 2D panels which are simple .BMP "pictures".

Will be interesting for some feedback from 3D cockpit designers as you suggest... Wink

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Cheers Daube... Wink

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Paul...in a happy mood... Grin

...!

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Reply #20 - Aug 28^th, 2006 at 2:08pm

Hagar Offline
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Quote:

PS: If I remember well, on a panel like this one (flat), in the VC you would have a bitmap for the center part of the panel, and this bitmap would have some "holes", transparent parts, filled with the "transparency" color.

So in such a case, nothing prevents you from editing the panel bitmap to add an additionnal transparent zone (by simply drawing a rectangle with the transparency color), and then place the needed gauge in that hole. I believe the coordonates of the gauges in the VC are not that difficult to understand, nor to manipulate

Any VC modeler out there to confirm ? ... or infirm ? Tongue

That shouldn't be necessary. DVC gauges are "projected" onto a transparent rectangular screen. Providing this screen covers the area it's possible to drop a gauge right in the slot, just as on a 2D panel. No editing of BMPs or textures involved.

Quote:

(Note my 2D add-on AP gauge doesn't automatically appear on the 3D panel which shows that the 3D panel, once designed, is not easily modified by the user).

Add the new gauge to the appropriate [VCockpitxx] section of Panel.cfg.

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Reply #21 - Aug 28^th, 2006 at 5:14pm

JBaymore Offline
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To start this off....... has anyone verified with Microsoft that the 2-D side views are NOT actually available in the new version? I beleive that I saw on one of the MSDN ACES team blogs that the 2-D cockpits are still there..... just not by default....you have to change to them.

My own 2 cents on this thought..........

Being a simpit builder/flyer..... I had planned on using those two 2-D side views for the "side windows" in the simpit. Hopefully they are still there in FSX. If not...... "the pit" may be staying on fs2004 Wink

.

Now that I am home from a two month international trip..... at some point... I have to download the beta/demo and check it out myself.

best,

....................john

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Reply #22 - Aug 28^th, 2006 at 6:04pm

RollerBall Ex Member

I've only tried this with one aircraft - an A310 which doesn't have a VC which I fly in FS9 with the 2D panel and cockpit views.

The panel showed in FSX - but the cockpit views did not appear at all unfortunately.

Sadly, in the Demo at least they appear to have gone - let's hope MS aren't daft enough to have removed them from the real release ???

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Reply #23 - Aug 28^th, 2006 at 9:43pm

Daube Offline
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I've re-read the original topic again.
MS has NOT removed the 2D panels.
The problem ONLY conerns the side view, which show the VC side-views instead of 2D side views if I have understood correctly.

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Reply #24 - Aug 28^th, 2006 at 9:44pm

Daube Offline
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Quote:

That shouldn't be necessary. DVC gauges are "projected" onto a transparent rectangular screen. Providing this screen covers the area it's possible to drop a gauge right in the slot, just as on a 2D panel. No editing of BMPs or textures involved.

Add the new gauge to the appropriate [VCockpitxx] section of Panel.cfg.

Thanks a lot Agar for your informations

I bet Fozzer must already be playing around with his VC files now Grin

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Reply #25 - Aug 29^th, 2006 at 3:48am

RollerBall Ex Member

Quote:

I bet Fozzer must already be playing around with his VC files now Grin

Fozzer has played around with all sorts of things in his rich and decidedly varied past, many of which are totally unmentionable on a family forum. However, he has never been known to play around with his VC files and I doubt that this situaion will change even with the advent of the upcoming FSX ???

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Reply #26 - Aug 29^th, 2006 at 4:09am

Fozzer Offline
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Quote:

Fozzer has played around with all sorts of things in his rich and decidedly varied past, many of which are totally unmentionable on a family forum. However, he has never been known to play around with his VC files and I doubt that this situation will change even with the advent of the upcoming FSX ???

The fact that I play around in my VC Flies on occasions and gives me much personal enjoyment, is my business, family forum or no family forum.... Wink

...!

LOL...... Grin

...!

But having noted Doug's advice re: installing gauges in the VC panel, I will divert my attention in that direction post haste and experiment in that area instead.... Grin

...!

Tee-Hee...!

Thanks Lads, for some useful tips... Wink

...!

Paul...in my VC incarnation...8)...!

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Reply #27 - Aug 29^th, 2006 at 12:55pm

cleobis Offline
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Hi, you can add gauges as easely to a vc as you would into a 2d.

of course this only works in flat vc panels, I mean, all those vc's that have 3d "placements" for the gauges don't allow this, I mean, they do, but the gauge has to be exactly the same size as the 3d space it "falls" into.

I've done this myself.

The VC is just a flat blank platfrom where you can drop the gause you want...

As for the whole 2d/3d debate...

I'm in favour of the 3d panels...they are the future...I'm sure..

1. The smoothness is no longer a problem, in fact, if you look at the realair spit, it has smoother gause than most 2d panels...

2. The side views that people want to use in the simpits...well just use the 3d view...fsx will allow you to define several 3d views. This means that it will even work better for simpits, because you can choose exactly the angle of the view to match your own simpit, and another grea advantage is that in a 3d view, the gause in the view will still work.

So, if you choose a side view for your simpit, the gauges in that particular sideview will be working, wich I think is a great advantage....

3. (and last) the thing about 3d panels having switches that are hidden behind the yoke or whatever...err...isn't that what you have in real cockpits? Some switches are hidden and the pilot has to "reach" for them...

If you use trackIr this problem disapears, because you can lean or look to a switch as real pilots do, and if you cant read any particular gauge, you just move your head a bit further in the direction of that gauge, again as real pilots do...

As for the money people complain about buying a trackIr...well, I don't see the point of this when people spend a LOT of money in yokes, pedals, throttles, joysticks, new monitors, etc,etc...

TrackIr is not that expensive and it will give you an imersion that I just can't describe...nowadays, I just can't fly without trackIr it IS a HUGE boost in imersion...

few...that was a long post Wink

cheers

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Reply #28 - Aug 30^th, 2006 at 8:13am

JBaymore Offline
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Quote:

2. The side views that people want to use in the simpits...well just use the 3d view...fsx will allow you to define several 3d views. This means that it will even work better for simpits, because you can choose exactly the angle of the view to match your own simpit, and another grea advantage is that in a 3d view, the gause in the view will still work.

So, if you choose a side view for your simpit, the gauges in that particular sideview will be working, wich I think is a great advantage....

Yes the "positionability" might be a good thing. I wonder if the framerates would be the same though? For simpits with a lot of OTW displays....... framerate issues become significant Wink

.

As to the gauges that show on the side views working,...... I think most simpuit builders don't want ANY gauges showing on OTW views (front OR side)... just the view "Out The Window". The window itself typically is physically "framed" with a real window emulation of some sort...and any gauges located near there are physical ones that have been installed.

I'll still have to explore this with the real demo to understand the potential impacts.

best,

...................john

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Reply #29 - Aug 30^th, 2006 at 8:32am

cleobis Offline
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Hmm, yes, I suppose people with simpits would have the gauges custom made, and so, no need for them to be working in the "window view"..

Now, about the framerates, I don't know, but probably it would make the system work harder I suppose...

« Last Edit: Aug 31^st, 2006 at 8:47am by cleobis »

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