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Comair flight crashes in Kentucky. (Read 1234 times)
Reply #30 - Aug 28th, 2006 at 10:37am

beaky   Offline
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Turns out the survivor is the FO- he's based at KJFK, and he's recovering from emergency surgery. Local cops and airport security pulled him out of the wreck, but couldn't save anybody else.

Aside from his personal good fortune, a lot of other people may benefit from his report; should be interesting and educational to hear his story.
 

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Reply #31 - Aug 28th, 2006 at 11:40am

expat   Offline
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Quote:
Aside from his personal good fortune, a lot of other people may benefit from his report; should be interesting and educational to hear his story.



That would depend; if he is as cooperative as the surviving F/O on the American Airlines McDonnell Douglas MD-82 into Little Rock, Arkansas then he will be more interested in saving his own skin. Lets hope not.

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Reply #32 - Aug 28th, 2006 at 12:40pm

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Recent reports indicate the lighting was "out of service" on 22 (the logner runway).
 
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Reply #33 - Aug 28th, 2006 at 2:22pm

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I can speak from experience that when I do something a million times it becomes second nature.  When something becomes second nature I cease to conscously think about it.  Often I can perform this act indefinately without fail, but in some rare cases it is at this point that I make obvious mistakes.  So I can see how a crew flying out of an airport they've departed from 100 times before could make a mistake and take off from the wrong runway.
 
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Reply #34 - Aug 28th, 2006 at 2:32pm

MrJake2002   Offline
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i thought the pilot was unfamilier with the airport but had flown the aircraft many times before.
 
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Reply #35 - Aug 28th, 2006 at 2:46pm

beefhole   Offline
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Quote:
i thought the pilot was unfamilier with the airport but had flown the aircraft many times before.

Yes.

First and foremost, hwo familiar a pilot is with an airport should be irrelevant.  However, Chris' point about doing the same thing a million times is exactly what I said before-doesn't matter how proffessional the crew, it leaves the door open to even just a little bit of carelessness-especially in these overworked, underpaid regional crews.
 
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Reply #36 - Aug 28th, 2006 at 2:58pm

RitterKreuz   Offline
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an over worked underpaid and sometimes fatigued crew is right.

start out at 9 or 10am on the first day and fly 7 legs until 8:40PM then take the 20 minute van ride to the hotel, shower, brush your teeth, arrange wakeup call, and eat whatever you can find to call "Dinner" by the time you drift off  to sleep its 11:00pm or later... here comes the 5:00 am wakeup call to do it all over again for 3 more days of the same. then on your last day when your ready to go home and the last passenger deplanes an your done  and its time to hit the days off stretch the company calls and wants you to do 2 more legs because they are out of crews for the day. BS your so drained by the time you get to your day off stretch you mostly just lay around the house sleeping!

regional airline pilots are only paid a per diem and for the flight hours NOTHING for the hours spent waiting between flights. so at the end of two weeks when your pay check arrives its a big dissapointment when its only $600  Undecided

think about that. if your an unmarried young person with little or no bills other than say a car, its not too bad. but throw a wife in the mix, all kinds of living expenses that are musts (electric, water, car, fuel etc) and your sunk at the end of every month.
 
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Reply #37 - Aug 28th, 2006 at 5:01pm

beefhole   Offline
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Aye, I don't think my CFI's lasted four months and he's getting out for a "normal" job. (he's lucky, he's highly qualified in fields other than aviation)
 
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Reply #38 - Aug 28th, 2006 at 5:17pm

RitterKreuz   Offline
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first officer turnover rate...

therin sits the other side of the coin... those who survive the difficult years make it to the majors and the 100K+ annual income bracket.

whenever someone leaves the job because of stress, disillusioned, cant make ends meet whatever everyone who stays moves one number up.   You would be amazed what the attrition is for First officers.

I wonder how many millions of dollars a year that costs these regionals... to train a person, put them on the line and then have to replace them 4 months later with someone who has half the experience. multiply that times the dozens of FOs who bail every month and thats one helluva lot of money.  i dont understand why they dont just start the FO's off in the 30K a year bracket. the company would have nearly no costs in replacing these individuals as they would surely stay on board!

the answer IMHO to staffing and rest period problems is...

1. let the company figure out how many crews they need system wide, then increase that number by 25%

2. figure out how many aircraft they need and increase it by 1 more plane per every 2 destinations on the map.

3. Increase the quality of life if it's people through decent wages and good pensions and you will have a loyal and dedicated worker group.
 
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Reply #39 - Aug 28th, 2006 at 5:19pm

Mushroom_Farmer   Offline
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I also heard today that the taxiway had been reconfigured recently.
It's starting to sound like a chain of unfortunate events, which is how most tragedies occur.
 

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Reply #40 - Aug 28th, 2006 at 5:34pm

beefhole   Offline
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When's the last time we had an aviation accident in the US that was largely pilot error? ie. nothing wrong with the plane, no severe wx, no mistakes by ATC (perhaps the tower controller should have realized he was holding short of the wrong runway, but the accident was not ATC's fault).  I can't remember the last time.
« Last Edit: Aug 28th, 2006 at 7:19pm by beefhole »  
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Reply #41 - Aug 28th, 2006 at 5:40pm

Fly2e   Offline
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LEXINGTON, Ky. - The taxi route for commercial jets using Blue Grass Airport’s main runway was altered a week before Comair Flight 5191 took the wrong runway and crashed, killing all but one of the 50 people aboard, the airport’s director said Monday.

Both the old and new taxiways cross over the shorter general aviation runway where the commuter jet tried to take off early Sunday, Blue Grass Airport Executive Director Michael Gobb told The Associated Press.

The runway repaving was completed late on the previous Sunday, Gobb said. It wasn’t clear if the Comair pilots aboard Flight 5191 had been there since the change. Comair operates that regular 6 a.m. weekend flight to Atlanta from Lexington, but another commuter airline takes over that commute during the week.

“It’s slightly different than it used to be,” said Charlie Monette, president of Aero-Tech flight school, which is based at the airport. “Could there have been some confusion associated with that? That’s certainly a possibility.”

The National Transportation Safety Board is investigating the crash and could not immediately be reached for comment.

Conversations between the plane’s cockpit and the person staffing the control tower before dawn Sunday morning mentioned only the airport’s main commercial strip, Runway 22, NTSB member Debbie Hersman said earlier Monday.

Somehow, the commuter jet ended up on the airport’s other runway instead, Runway 26 — a cracked surface meant for small planes that was much too short for Comair’s twin-engine jet.

What followed was the worst U.S. plane disaster since 2001.

Clipping trees
The pilots tried to lift off, but the plane clipped trees, then quickly crashed in a field and burst into flames, killing everyone aboard but a critically injured co-pilot who was pulled from the cracked cockpit.

Although Blue Grass Airport’s Runway 22 is 7,000 feet, the plane departed from the 3,500-foot general aviation Runway 26. The twin-engine CRJ-100 would have needed 5,000 feet to fully get off the ground, aviation experts said.

There also were clues for the pilot: Signs marking the right way. Less lighting. And severely cracked concrete — not the type of surface typically found on runways for commercial routes.

Left now are only scuff marks on the wrong runway and the wreckage of a plane scattered into pieces across a field about a mile away from the airport.
 

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Reply #42 - Aug 28th, 2006 at 7:26pm

beefhole   Offline
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CNN just did a recreation using "special software" (FS2004) and it was actually done very well.
 
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Reply #43 - Aug 28th, 2006 at 7:59pm

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I wonder how many of us have taken a CRJ-200 to KLEX and tried taking off on 26 ?
 
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Reply #44 - Aug 28th, 2006 at 8:06pm

RitterKreuz   Offline
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lol good question


it wasnt pretty when i tried it.  Undecided
 
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