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I'm Stock,Designers Get in (Read 55 times)
Aug 21st, 2006 at 5:29am

alrot   Offline
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Freeware Designers Above
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This thread is for exchange opinions among designer comunity,Not for a war or offence me ,please I can be wrong,but Im worrie about this new aircraft format:

Perhaps Im not the one qualified to see or not to said nothing about this,im stock in the middle of my learning in design beyond all the issues of redistribuitions of the planes, I did & I love it! gosh! I really love to make planes for the people and for myself,I enjoy that very much Im kind afraid to continue of the making planes until I buy a new pc and know all about this new fsx

Due that ,Frankly ,well my pc is capable to run FSX but Its too hard for it ,It takes nearly 5 minutes to load a plane,It eats all its memory, second,have any of you designer seen this?take a look what for me are the same planes,THE model please not the amazing textures ,were talking of the Mdl what do it have? ,as far I see are the same Structure,_interior _exterior But why?

...
If any one can  tell me why of this a hudge size and difference please I apreciate it you to tell me,

I was doing a plane,wich I had to abort,or stop when FSX demo came out, Im sure that some of view will tell me Come on alrot ,people will continue using FS9 for long timeor also your planes run in fsx I think people will change fs9 by fsx at the moment it came to the market,To be honest,Im in the one of that list, Im planing to makes some sacrifices,Saving, sale things, work harder,JUST for FSX,Why because I hate to stock  in the past and see people from here Join in a new age of Flight Simulator While ,Im playing with and obsolet program and making obsolet planes

BTW Take a look this

...


What is the DDS format? how can I open a DDS file? does anybuddy seen the old fs9 planes reflexions in the fuselage (as example)I mean the OLD dtxbmp format?GREYICH effect....Im just asking ,are Microsoft making this new FS design format Not to let us make planes for it?maybe they are planing to sell their own models?If I were them ,Ill do it ,Why let other win money if I can do only by me?after all I made the sofware and I can do what I want,..........Im especulating ok? Just a though
 

...

Venezuela
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Reply #1 - Aug 21st, 2006 at 5:43am

Ashton Lawson   Offline
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FS Water Configurator
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First off, size.
Higher detail and stuff.  Mostly mapping for various things like (normal map, lm map, damage map, bump map, fresnel map)

second, dunno about the pic.

third, download this:
http://www.mnwright.btinternet.co.uk/programs/dxtbmp.htm
it lets you view the new DXTBmp file and DDS.  But not the DDS which says fresnel on it.
 

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Reply #2 - Aug 21st, 2006 at 10:52am

Fr. Bill   Offline
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The new FSX Baron 58 is nothing at all like the FS9 version.  There is a tremendous increase in detail on both the exterior and interior models...

That's the reason for the difference in file sizes!  Shocked

DDS = Direct Draw Surface... this is a format that does not require 'conversion' by the rendering software, but may be applied directly via the video hardware.

The contents of a DDS file can be any of the various compression formats we're used to, such as 555-1, DXT1, DXT3, DXT5, etc.
 

Bill
... Gauge Programming - 3d Modeling Eaglesoft Development Group Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600-4GB DDR2 Crucial PC6400-800 GB SATA-ATI Radeon HD2400 Pro 256MB DX10 NOTE: Unless explicitly stated in the post, everything written by my hand is MY opinion. I do NOT speak for any company, real or imagined...
...
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Reply #3 - Aug 21st, 2006 at 11:20am

-sam-   Offline
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I always use  ATi´s Compressonator..
You can download it here
http://www.ati.com/developer/compressonator.html
 

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Reply #4 - Aug 21st, 2006 at 3:44pm

alrot   Offline
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I just download the compresonator,Interesting tool,I looking if I can manipůlate some BMP

Direct Draw Surface you mean its execute as like an sort of video? apply to the Mdl?
 

...

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Reply #5 - Aug 21st, 2006 at 9:15pm

BUZZMAN   Offline
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just one question  if the old mdl is 761kb in size and the new mdl is 13.186kb or 1.31meg in size
then i am just guessing this could mean that they have increased the model size limit 2.44 megs for an exterior model as i have noticed that when that size is reached you can export it but fs9 will not show it ?? it remeans invisiable (and i mean just the exterior model on its own ) one of my old seaking files would not show up at all after exporting itas i decreased the size of it then then would show up at the moment the merlin i am working is at 2.43 megs in size after exporting it thats just for the exterior part as well same thing happens when over 2.44 megs

so i am hoping that they have adressed this issue and increased the limit size for the models say around 6 megs in total that would give you a hell of a detailed model to look at as well

eddie
 

dooohhhhh!!!
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Reply #6 - Aug 22nd, 2006 at 10:54am

-sam-   Offline
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Quote:
I just download the compresonator,Interesting tool,I looking if I can manipůlate some BMP

Direct Draw Surface you mean its execute as like an sort of video? apply to the Mdl?


The Compressonator is just a converter !!
DDS is just like any other image format... There is nothing really special about it. It´s optimized for DirectX applications to load faster and save some space by using special compression algorithms. Even some OpenGL Engines like Quake4 use DDS images.
It does not contain any special information that would cause reflections or bumpmapping when a DDS File is
applied to a 3D Object. This is done by a Shader File
A Shader in general is a script that defines the behaviour (the look) of a surface. A shader contains several stages like diffuse (color), bump, reflection where each stage can
load several DDS Images that can be composed in various ways to get a certain look.
Below I post a "simple" (for programmer Smiley.. not for me)
Diffuse, bump Shader
Quote:
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
//simple Duffuse bump - adapted from the nVidia cgFX samples
//This sample supports Render To Texture and is setup to use
//Mapping channel 3 - it just needs to be uncommented.
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

float4x4 worldMatrix :            World;      // World or Model matrix
float4x4 WorldIMatrix :      WorldI;      // World Inverse or Model Inverse matrix
float4x4 mvpMatrix :            WorldViewProj;      // Model*View*Projection
float4x4 worldViewMatrix :      WorldView;
float4x4 viewInverseMatrix :      ViewI;

// tweakables

texture diffuseTexture : DiffuseMap<
     string name = "seafloor.dds";
     string UIName = "Diffuse Texture";
//      int Texcoord = 0;
//      int MapChannel = 3;      
     >;
     
texture normalMap : NormalMap <
     string name = "NMP_Ripples2_512.dds";
     string UIName = "Normal Texture";
//      int Texcoord = 0;
//      int MapChannel = 3;      
     >;

float4 ambientColor : Ambient
<
> = { 0.1, 0.1, 0.1, 1.0};


float4 bumpHeight
<
> = { 1.5, 1.0, 0.5, 0.0};


float4 lightDir : Direction < 
     string UIName = "Light Direction";
     string Object = "TargetLight";
     int RefID = 0;
     > = {-0.577, -0.577, 0.577,1.0};


struct a2v {
     float4 Position : POSITION; //in object space
     float3 Normal : NORMAL; //in object space
     float2 TexCoord : TEXCOORD0;
     float3 T : TANGENT; //in object space
     float3 B : BINORMAL; //in object space
};

struct v2f {
     float4 Position : POSITION; //in projection space
     float2 TexCoord0 : TEXCOORD0;
     float2 TexCoord1 : TEXCOORD1;
     float3 LightVector : TEXCOORD2;
};

struct f2fb {
     float4 col : COLOR;
};

v2f DiffuseBumpVS(a2v IN,
           uniform float4x4 WorldViewProj,
             uniform float4x4 WorldIMatrix,
           uniform float4 LightDir)
{
     v2f OUT;

     // pass texture coordinates for fetching the diffuse map
     OUT.TexCoord0.xy = IN.TexCoord.xy;

     // pass texture coordinates for fetching the normal map
     OUT.TexCoord1.xy = IN.TexCoord.xy;
#if 1
     // compute the 3x3 tranform from tangent space to object space
     float3x3 objToTangentSpace;
     objToTangentSpace[0] = IN.B;
     objToTangentSpace[1] = IN.T;
     objToTangentSpace[2] = IN.Normal;

     // transform normal from object space to tangent space and pass it as a color
     //OUT.Normal.xyz = 0.5 * mul(IN.Normal,objToTangentSpace) + 0.5.xxx;

         float4 objectLightDir = mul(LightDir,WorldIMatrix);
     float4 vertnormLightVec = normalize(objectLightDir);
     // transform light vector from object space to tangent space and pass it as a color
     OUT.LightVector.xyz = 0.5 * mul(objToTangentSpace,vertnormLightVec.xyz ) + 0.5.xxx;
     // transform position to projection space
     OUT.Position = mul(IN.Position,WorldViewProj).xyzw;
#else
       OUT.LightVector = 0;
     OUT.Position = mul(IN.Position,WorldViewProj).xyzw;
#endif
     return OUT;

}

f2fb DiffuseBumpPS(v2f IN,
           uniform sampler2D DiffuseMap,
           uniform sampler2D NormalMap,
                   uniform float4 bumpHeight)
{
     f2fb OUT;

     //fetch base color
     float4 color = tex2D(DiffuseMap,IN.TexCoord0 );

     //fetch bump normal
     
     float4 bumpNormal = (2 * (tex2D(NormalMap,IN.TexCoord1)-0.5)) * 1.5;

     //expand iterated light vector to [-1,1]
     float3 lightVector = 2 * (IN.LightVector - 0.5 );
     lightVector = normalize(lightVector);

     //compute final color (diffuse + ambient)
     float4 bump = dot(bumpNormal.xyz,lightVector.xyz);
     OUT.col = (color *bump) + 0.1 ;
     OUT.col.a = 1.0;
     return OUT;
}

sampler2D diffuseSampler = sampler_state
{
     Texture = <diffuseTexture>;
     MinFilter = Linear;
     MagFilter = Linear;
     MipFilter = Linear;
};

sampler2D normalSampler = sampler_state
{
     Texture = <normalMap>;
     MinFilter = Linear;
     MagFilter = Linear;
     MipFilter = Linear;
};

//////// techniques ////////////////////////////

technique Default
{

     pass p0
     {
           ZEnable = true;
           ZWriteEnable = true;
           CullMode = None;
           VertexShader = compile vs_1_1 DiffuseBumpVS(mvpMatrix,WorldIMatrix,lightDir);
             PixelShader = compile ps_2_0 DiffuseBumpPS(diffuseSampler,normalSampler,bumpHeight);
     }
}






I wonder if FSX will support custom shader files !!
In FS9 I think there just one shader file for all objects.. that caused the reflections.. well actually it is cubemapping
for real raytraced reflections.. we´ll have to wait until the Hardware is fast enough.

cheers
 

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Reply #7 - Aug 22nd, 2006 at 12:02pm

Fr. Bill   Offline
Colonel
I used to have a life;
now I have GMax!
Hammond, IN

Gender: male
Posts: 962
*****
 
Quote:
I wonder if FSX will support custom shader files !!


You can answer your own question by looking in the Demo's \Shader HLSL folder...
 

Bill
... Gauge Programming - 3d Modeling Eaglesoft Development Group Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600-4GB DDR2 Crucial PC6400-800 GB SATA-ATI Radeon HD2400 Pro 256MB DX10 NOTE: Unless explicitly stated in the post, everything written by my hand is MY opinion. I do NOT speak for any company, real or imagined...
...
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Reply #8 - Aug 22nd, 2006 at 12:09pm

-sam-   Offline
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I forgot.. there is one special thing about DDS.
It can store Mipmaps. These are smaller version of the
image stored within the original image.
Those are loaded when an object is further away from the camera to save memory and speed up the rendering.
You can create those with Compressonator.
But it always depends on the game engine. Some do not
support mipmaps.. and some force to use mipmaps.
FS9 allready can use DDS images. Actually they are renamed
*.bmp. If you come across a bmp in FS9 that cannot be loaded with a normal image viewer... rename it to image.dds
and try to load it with compressonator. Should work...

cheers
 

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Reply #9 - Aug 22nd, 2006 at 12:10pm

-sam-   Offline
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Quote:
You can answer your own question by looking in the Demo's \Shader HLSL folder...


Have not yet found the time to install and test the demo
Roll Eyes
 

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