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A380 question (Read 3825 times)
Aug 2nd, 2006 at 3:37pm

PlutonianEmpire   Offline
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I've heard that the A380 can fly from London to Sydney. Is it true, or is it just hype?
 

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Reply #1 - Aug 2nd, 2006 at 4:02pm

`Josh   Offline
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Just hype, at least for the -800 model. Its range is about 15,000 kilometers, and from London to Sydney is 16,997 kilometers. However, there may be an extended range version that could do the trip.
 

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Reply #2 - Aug 2nd, 2006 at 4:16pm

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Quote:
I've heard that the A380 can fly from London to Sydney. Is it true, or is it just hype?


I'm sure it could if it tried. Doubt it would have any passengers on board though... Grin
 
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Reply #3 - Aug 3rd, 2006 at 3:45pm

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there are a couple of planes that can do london Sydney, its Sydney london thats the problem.
 
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Reply #4 - Aug 4th, 2006 at 1:57am
cheesegrater   Ex Member

 
Quote:
there are a couple of planes that can do london Sydney, its Sydney london thats the problem.


What's the difference?
 
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Reply #5 - Aug 4th, 2006 at 7:30am

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the wind, you have a tailwind thanks to the jetstream, which helps with fuel saving. on the way back its a headwind.
 
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Reply #6 - Aug 4th, 2006 at 7:57pm

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Quote:
the wind, you have a tailwind thanks to the jetstream, which helps with fuel saving. on the way back its a headwind.

Inless you keep going east. Grin


Then it's a bloody long way though... Tongue
 

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Reply #7 - Aug 8th, 2006 at 1:36pm
Bpilot0   Ex Member

 
they A380 can fly hlafway around the world
 
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Reply #8 - Aug 8th, 2006 at 1:40pm

Woodlouse2002   Offline
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Quote:
they A380 can fly hlafway around the world

That it may. But more often than not I reckon you'd run out of fuel over an ocean. Grin
 

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Reply #9 - Aug 8th, 2006 at 1:48pm
Bpilot0   Ex Member

 
they A380 can fly hlafway around the world without stopping
 
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Reply #10 - Aug 8th, 2006 at 6:40pm
Jakemaster   Ex Member

 
Quote:
they A380 can fly hlafway around the world without stopping


But thats only halfway, and pretty much wherever you start out and whatever direction you go you end up in an ocean halfway across the world Grin
 
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Reply #11 - Aug 11th, 2006 at 5:31pm

Chris E   Offline
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it may be able to make it, but not with the legally required reserve fuel would be my guess
 

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Reply #12 - Oct 16th, 2006 at 5:12pm

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Do you know what is the standard hourly fuel consumption for the A380? By saying "standard" I mean normal cruising like FL380/0.85M.
 
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Reply #13 - Oct 20th, 2006 at 12:51am

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It can't do London to Sydney, but apparently it can do London to Perth, so Perth Int'l is trying (or already is) to become A380 capable.
 

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Reply #14 - Oct 29th, 2006 at 7:27pm

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just making it easier to spread the next plauge. Roll Eyes I'm seriuos!
 

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Reply #15 - Nov 6th, 2006 at 8:52am

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The only thing that can do that flight is the Boeing 777-200LR Wink
 
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Reply #16 - Nov 8th, 2006 at 8:13pm

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Does this -- http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/247908_qantas11.html -- means that the triple 7 can? What about the a340-500 or -642
 

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Reply #17 - Nov 12th, 2006 at 12:50pm

PlutonianEmpire   Offline
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Another question: why is there no GE engine option? Surely it'd be only fitting that the worlds largest airliner be fitted with the GE-90 engines, the worlds largest jet engine?
 

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Reply #18 - Nov 12th, 2006 at 5:48pm

Nexus   Offline
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Quote:
Another question: why is there no GE engine option? Surely it'd be only fitting that the worlds largest airliner be fitted with the GE-90 engines, the worlds largest jet engine?


GE90 design is not suitable for quads.
It s too heavy and packs too much power.

Simply put, the A380 dont need the excessive thrust and certainly can live without the additional weight.
 
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Reply #19 - Nov 12th, 2006 at 6:37pm

PlutonianEmpire   Offline
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Wouldn't the additional power offset the additional weight?
 

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Reply #20 - Nov 12th, 2006 at 8:12pm

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Quote:
Wouldn't the additional power offset the additional weight?

It doesn't need it. And what would be the point? Tongue
 

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Reply #21 - Nov 13th, 2006 at 9:42am

Nexus   Offline
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Quote:
Wouldn't the additional power offset the additional weight?


Additional power means additional fuel consumption to cope with the added weight... And you can't increase the volume of the fueltanks.
Congrats, you have just reduced the range of the A380.
I'm sure the airlines enjoy that.  Smiley

Also, read Woodlouse's reply. Pretty much sums it up.
 
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Reply #22 - Nov 13th, 2006 at 10:44am

PlutonianEmpire   Offline
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Stupid me. I thought it would increase the range. *bangs head on wall*
 

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Reply #23 - Nov 13th, 2006 at 11:20am

Nexus   Offline
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Quote:
Stupid me. I thought it would increase the range. *bangs head on wall*


More powerful engines doesnt necessary equal increased range. I bet that four GE90's will consume considerably more amount of fuel than the current engines available for the A380.

Also throw in the jet engines need for high RPMs to be effective, you soon realize that this can not be done. If you'd keep four GE90's at 90% in cruise, you'd exceed MMO
 
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Reply #24 - Nov 14th, 2006 at 6:00am

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Actually, GE-90 or its Rolls-Royce equivalent should be pretty comfortable to power a A380-sized trijet.

So would you like to fly a doubledecker trijet? And would you prefer to mount a GE90 in the tailcone with S-duct, like Tristar, ot above tail like DC-10 and MD-11?
 
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Reply #25 - Nov 14th, 2006 at 7:00am

Nexus   Offline
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An A380 tri-jet, now that is interesting  Smiley

For design purposes I'd put an S-duct.

The A380-800 is a rather chubby aircraft and would not like to lose some of the rudder surface that has to be sacrificed in order to give way to a straight duct (á la DC10)
And should we make the tailplane higher, then it wont fit in hangars  Grin

With an S-duct, you pretty much leave the rudder intact, at the cost of some engine efficiency. But that's rather minimal I believe  ???

 
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Reply #26 - Nov 14th, 2006 at 9:38am

PlutonianEmpire   Offline
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Quote:
Actually, GE-90 or its Rolls-Royce equivalent should be pretty comfortable to power a A380-sized trijet.

So would you like to fly a doubledecker trijet? And would you prefer to mount a GE90 in the tailcone with S-duct, like Tristar, ot above tail like DC-10 and MD-11?

Heck yeah! Grin

I'd choose the S-duct style. Smiley
 

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Reply #27 - Nov 15th, 2006 at 6:26am

chornedsnorkack   Offline
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Quote:
More powerful engines doesnt necessary equal increased range. I bet that four GE90's will consume considerably more amount of fuel than the current engines available for the A380.

Also throw in the jet engines need for high RPMs to be effective, you soon realize that this can not be done. If you'd keep four GE90's at 90% in cruise, you'd exceed MMO


Er, why MMO?

If you add power to a plane then I do not think it increases range... see Virgin Atlantic GlobalFlyer, which is deliberately underpowered.

What adding power does do:

Your takeoff roll gets shorter (assuming the rotation speed is unchanged). But the braking distance in a rejected takeoff is not getting any shorter.

Initial climb gradient gets steeper - more excess power, easier to clear terrain ahead, less time to reach a given flight level.

Cruise altitudes increase - after all, a plane climbs until the engines derate to equal drag...

Landing roll is not getting any shorter. However, the gradients of go-around get better.

So... there was recently a 747 that landed in Rand Airport. 1500 m runway, and it is hot and high! Can A380 do the same?
 
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Reply #28 - Nov 15th, 2006 at 10:04am

Nexus   Offline
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I was talking about the cruise phase.
Any jet engine likes to run at high rpms, or else the relationship between fuel burn and thrust produced will be worse.

SO...if you run all four GR90s on high RPMs the aircraft will likely exceed the barberpole, since the aircraft is greatly overpowered .

The cruise altitude will increase, but due to regulations the A380 might not be able to fly higher unless the environmental system is re-designed (On most jets it is not the structural strenght that limits the operating ceiling, but the pressurization system)

And I never did say the A380 would gain range, I was saying it will LOSE range with four GE90's  Smiley
 
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Reply #29 - Nov 15th, 2006 at 10:45am

chornedsnorkack   Offline
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Quote:
I was talking about the cruise phase.
Any jet engine likes to run at high rpms, or else the relationship between fuel burn and thrust produced will be worse.

SO...if you run all four GR90s on high RPMs the aircraft will likely exceed the barberpole, since the aircraft is greatly overpowered .

The cruise altitude will increase, but due to regulations the A380 might not be able to fly higher unless the environmental system is re-designed (On most jets it is not the structural strenght that limits the operating ceiling, but the pressurization system)

And I never did say the A380 would gain range, I was saying it will LOSE range with four GE90's  Smiley


Indeed. That´s where I am inclined to agree. A380 is probably not underpowered to the extent where adding power would increase range. Mind you, there is still the phase of climb to cruise, though. 

Does loss of power decrease range? One of the Route Proving Flights is supposed to be Johannesburg - Sydney - over the South Pole. Would you like being on an A380 over the interior of Antarctic continent and lose power in one engine - would the fuel last to Sydney?




 
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Reply #30 - Nov 15th, 2006 at 4:42pm

Nexus   Offline
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No the range will decrease if you lose power on one engine aswell because of the added drag penalty (must reduce altitude plus having rudder trim and a windmilling engine)

But that is a different phenomenon compared to why four GE90s will decrease the A380 range. Heck it might even be more economical to operate the A380 with 3/4 GE90 engines running  Grin  Grin  Grin
 
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Reply #31 - Nov 15th, 2006 at 4:53pm

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Quote:
No the range will decrease if you lose power on one engine aswell because of the added drag penalty (must reduce altitude plus having rudder trim and a windmilling engine)

But that is a different phenomenon compared to why four GE90s will decrease the A380 range. Heck it might even be more economical to operate the A380 with 3/4 GE90 engines running  Grin  Grin  Grin

Hence the tri-jet idea. Tongue
 

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Reply #32 - Nov 20th, 2006 at 4:08am

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Quote:
No the range will decrease if you lose power on one engine aswell because of the added drag penalty (must reduce altitude plus having rudder trim and a windmilling engine)

But that is a different phenomenon compared to why four GE90s will decrease the A380 range. Heck it might even be more economical to operate the A380 with 3/4 GE90 engines running  Grin  Grin  Grin


Losing power probably reduces range even if there is no rudder trim, like losing centre engine on trijet. Reducing altitude should make range worse.

But does adding power, and thus reaching higher altitude, add range or decrease it?
 
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Reply #33 - Dec 16th, 2006 at 10:17pm

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PlutonianEmpire wrote on Aug 2nd, 2006 at 3:37pm:
I've heard that the A380 can fly from London to Sydney. Is it true, or is it just hype?


Yes It can with a lighter payload.
 

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Reply #34 - Dec 25th, 2006 at 8:37am
DizZa   Ex Member

 
The A380 CAN fly from Sydney from London nonstop. The A380 CAN'T do it with much of a load, making it not very profitable to do so. Boeing needs to chuck more fuel into the 772LR or Qantas needs to order the long range A350 variant, but that is doubtful because they've already ordered 50? 787's.

Renember, a Qantas 744 flew from Sydney to London, but that dosn't mean you'll see it happen commercially.
 
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Reply #35 - Dec 27th, 2006 at 9:01am

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Quote:
The A380 CAN fly from Sydney from London nonstop. The A380 CAN'T do it with much of a load, making it not very profitable to do so. Boeing needs to chuck more fuel into the 772LR or Qantas needs to order the long range A350 variant


Talking about long-range variants, Airbus has flown A380 at over 590 ton TOW, more than 30 t overload. The freighter (which no one but UPS wants) is to have 590 t MTOW and an extra fuel tank in wingbox.

It seems to me that once Airbus has developed the extra strengthening for Freighter landing gear and wings and the extra fuel tank, they could derive the 380-800 HGW variant.
 
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Reply #36 - Feb 11th, 2007 at 10:57am

PlutonianEmpire   Offline
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Another Question: how high can it go?

right now, i'm flying it at FL450 in fs9...
 

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Reply #37 - Feb 15th, 2007 at 12:51am

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the a-380 has a service ceiling of 43000 feet
 

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