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Most improbable V1 kill (Read 1568 times)
Jul 12th, 2006 at 2:44am

gryshnak   Offline
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This should have been posted yesterday but I forgot  Roll Eyes

1944: Most improbable V1 rocket kill is scored by turret gunner of an RAF Grumman "Avenger" on anti-E-boat patrol over the English Channel - at night!

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Reply #1 - Jul 12th, 2006 at 2:55am

Hagar   Offline
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Not heard that one before.

Quote:
1944: Most improbable V1 rocket kill is scored by turret gunner of an RAF Grumman "Avenger" on anti-E-boat patrol over the English Channel - at night!

The V1 was not a rocket. http://www.flyingbombsandrockets.com/V1_into.html

PS. The Avenger was operated by the Royal Navy & originally known as the Tarpon. I can't find any record of it serving with the RAF.
 

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Reply #2 - Jul 12th, 2006 at 3:17am
Flt.Lt.Andrew   Ex Member

 
....it used a pulse jet!


And the Wildcat was better known in the RN as the Martlet, yes?


A.



P.S thats pretty improbable...
 
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Reply #3 - Jul 12th, 2006 at 1:17pm

HawkerTempest5   Offline
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Quote:



And the Wildcat was better known in the RN as the Martlet, yes?


A.



P.S thats pretty improbable...

Yes it was called the Martlet. It is true about the Tarpon and the V1. It flew over the Tarpon and the turret gunner shot it down. Just out of interest, the first USAAF aircraft to shoot down a V1 was a P-47 on ASR patrol.
 

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Reply #4 - Jul 12th, 2006 at 1:43pm

C   Offline
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Quote:
....it used a pulse jet!


And the Wildcat was better known in the RN as the Martlet, yes?



...and the Hellcat was called the....



Hellcat...
Grin

Quote:
I can't find any record of it serving with the RAF.


Should've done though... A beast of an aeroplane. Not quite RAF material though! Grin
 
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Reply #5 - Jul 12th, 2006 at 3:27pm

dcunning30   Offline
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Rocket, jet, rocket, jet......

Sometimes we slip up with our terms.  Ever pondered JATO?

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Reply #6 - Jul 12th, 2006 at 3:42pm

Hagar   Offline
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Quote:
Rocket, jet, rocket, jet......

Sometimes we slip up with our terms.  Ever pondered JATO?

Technically it should be RATO. Some prop-driven aircraft were fitted with gas-turbines for take-off which would be more correctly named JATO (Jet Assisted Take Off.)

My point was that it would have been impossible for anyone to shoot down a rocket during WWII. There was no defence against the V2 at the time.
 

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Reply #7 - Jul 13th, 2006 at 3:47am

H   Offline
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Quote:
My point was that it would have been impossible for anyone to shoot down a rocket during WWII. There was no defence against the V2 at the time.
To be technical, that's too emphatic: it would have been highly improbable or, as a 19th century billiard player would say, a fluke shot (basically, accidental).
Wink

8)
 
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Reply #8 - Jul 13th, 2006 at 4:42am

Hagar   Offline
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Quote:
To be technical, that's too emphatic: it would have been highly improbable or, as a 19th century billiard player would say, a fluke shot (basically, accidental). Wink

Not at all. I still say it was impossible.
 

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Reply #9 - Jul 13th, 2006 at 1:43pm

C   Offline
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Quote:
Not at all. I still say it was impossible.



I agree. I can think of no defence against the V2 in its time. Of course we now live in an age where missile can down missiles...
 
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Reply #10 - Jul 13th, 2006 at 2:53pm

Hagar   Offline
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Quote:
I agree. I can think of no defence against the V2 in its time. Of course we now live in an age where missile can down missiles...

To elaborate for my pedantic friend H. However unlikely it might have been that they would even hit it, anyone bringing down a V1 was presumably aiming at it. Being a comparatively slow cruise missile it would be plainly visible & the engine made a terrible racket. This would not be possible in the case of the V2 rocket as it would have reached its target before anyone saw it or heard it coming.
 

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Reply #11 - Jul 14th, 2006 at 1:59am

H   Offline
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Quote:
To elaborate for my pedantic friend H. However unlikely it might have been that they would even hit it, anyone bringing down a V1 was presumably aiming at it. Being a comparatively slow cruise missile it would be plainly visible & the engine made a terrible racket. This would not be possible in the case of the V2 rocket as it would have reached its target before anyone saw it or heard it coming.
???
...speaking of pedantic. If I'm aiming at something and hit it, it's no accident. No matter how my TI claimed my shots were lucky or that I must have had help, every shot found the target I was aiming at -- it was no accident; it is not the aim for an accidental shot to have struck it's unintended target. If it was decided to continually fire AA over London with the hope that a shot took out a V2 and such happened, it would not have been an accident, however unlikely (and a huge waste of dwindling resources).
To elaborate, we are not disagreeing about your ad-lib point that there was no sure defense against an in-flight V2. Even with today's technology, however, it is not impossible for a rocket to get past anti-missile defenses any more than it's impossible for said rocket to intersect the flight path of a cannonball shot at the steeple of St. John of the Improbable (or whatever).

Wink
 
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Reply #12 - Jul 14th, 2006 at 2:30pm

C   Offline
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Quote:
???
Even with today's technology, however, it is not impossible for a rocket to get past anti-missile defenses any more than it's impossible for said rocket to intersect the flight path of a cannonball shot at the steeple of St. John of the Improbable (or whatever).

Wink


The displaced airflow of the rocket would probably make it unlikely that the cannonball would get close the the very fast moving rocket...
 
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Reply #13 - Jul 15th, 2006 at 3:08am
Flt.Lt.Andrew   Ex Member

 
...but Charlie, you're neglecting the fact that its at St. John's!




A.
 
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Reply #14 - Jul 15th, 2006 at 4:53am

C   Offline
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Quote:
...but Charlie, you're neglecting the fact that its at St. John's!




A.



Ah yes, so I am! Grin
 
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Reply #15 - Jul 15th, 2006 at 10:50am

H   Offline
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Quote:
...but Charlie, you're neglecting the fact that its at St. John's!  A.

...but  Andrew, you're neglecting the fact that Charlie also stated "The displaced airflow of the rocket would probably make it unlikely that the cannonball would get close [to] the very fast moving rocket..."
...which automatically eliminates "impossible" without an argument about whether the rocket hits the cannonball or the cannonball the rocket or how effectively the flight paths would be changed for either missile to completely miss their intended targets. Either way, it could well change the outcome of St. John's steeple chase.
Wink Grin

8)
« Last Edit: Jul 17th, 2006 at 3:19am by H »  
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Reply #16 - Jul 16th, 2006 at 2:04am
Flt.Lt.Andrew   Ex Member

 
Hahahahahah , well spotted, and well said!




A.
 
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Reply #17 - Jul 16th, 2006 at 6:32am

C   Offline
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Quote:
[color=Navy]
...which automatically eliminates "impossible" without an argument about whether the rocket hits the cannonball or the cannonball the rocket or how effectively the flight paths would be changed for either missle to completely miss their intended targets. Either way, it could well change the outcome of St. John's steeple chase.
Wink Grin


Doh...
Grin
 
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Reply #18 - Jul 16th, 2006 at 11:30am

beaky   Offline
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Wait, I'm lost... how fast is the steeple going again? That's important.

Grin

I hadn't heard that particular story, but apparently, V1s were relatively easy to kill... a number of them were shot down , and a few were even turned off-course by a fighter pulling up alongside and  tipping it with a wing.
 

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Reply #19 - Jul 16th, 2006 at 12:02pm

C   Offline
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Quote:
I hadn't heard that particular story, but apparently, V1s were relatively easy to kill... a number of them were shot down , and a few were even turned off-course by a fighter pulling up alongside and  tipping it with a wing.


Many were shot down, generally by fighters in Kent or by AAA. It was no coincidence that the first operational jet fighters (Gloster Meteors) in the RAF were based at RAF Manston - the closest airfield to France large enough for them to operate from. Most air to air kills of V1s appear to have come from Meteors, Tempests and late Mk Spitfires...

The tipping story is indeed correct, although it wasn't always necessary to make contact - often placing your wingtip underneath that of the V1 was enough for the wingtip vortices to lift the wing of the V1, in turn hopefully toppling that gyroscopic autopilot, leaving the thing to crash fairly soon after - hopefully in open ground...
 
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Reply #20 - Jul 16th, 2006 at 12:43pm

Hagar   Offline
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Quote:
The tipping story is indeed correct, although it wasn't always necessary to make contact - often placing your wingtip underneath that of the V1 was enough for the wingtip vortices to lift the wing of the V1, in turn hopefully toppling that gyroscopic autopilot, leaving the thing to crash fairly soon after - hopefully in open ground...

I think that only happened a couple of times when the fighter ran out of ammo. I read you had to be very careful not to actually touch the wings or BOOM.........!
 

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Reply #21 - Jul 16th, 2006 at 2:55pm

C   Offline
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...and here's a "Spit" (according to the original caption) doing just that

...
 
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Reply #22 - Jul 16th, 2006 at 3:05pm

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Some V-1s were fitted with an anti-tilt device (some kind of wires between the wing and fuselage I believe) once the Germans got wind of the tipping. One Free French pilot ran out of ammo trying to kill one and when he realised it was going to crash into a hospital rammed it at the cost of his own life!
 

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Reply #23 - Jul 17th, 2006 at 7:54am

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Fighter aircraft were often damaged by the exploding V1. Jean Maridor the Free French pilot died engaging a V1 in a Spitfire XIV. I read a story about a chap named James Sheddon. Whilst engaging a V1 in his Tempest his engine over heated and cut out resulting in a forced landing. On inspection it was found that it was not debris from the V1 that had forced him down but a 20mm cannon cartridge lodged in the radiator from the Tempest of W/C Roland Bemont who also claimed a half share in Sheddon’s V1!
 

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