Simviation Forum - So, this thing you call DX10....

May 30^th, 2006 at 4:41pm

Airshow_lover Offline
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So is DX10 going to be mandatory for FSX?

C/SMSgt - Civil Air Patrol

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Reply #1 - May 30^th, 2006 at 4:55pm

Craig. Offline
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simple answer no. Long answer, it will be better for full compatibility.

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Reply #2 - May 30^th, 2006 at 5:31pm

Splat762 Offline
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Ah yes, the DX10 question.....

...CraigL had the right answer. No it will not be manditory....FSX will run on DX9 and on XP. But to get the most out of it you will need a DX10 capable GPU (video card) and will have to upgrade to Windows Vista. I'm sure it will be well worth it for anyone wanting to upgrade....I know I will, not just for FSX but for the future of computer gaming I think Vista and DX10 will be a must have.

Naval Aviation - Fight to fly, fly to fight, fight to win.&&Sig by Stormtropper/9thSimplex&&&&Aviation Ordnanceman 1st Class, U.S. Navy - Putting warheads on foreheads since 1995&&&&http://www.simviation.com/yabbuploads/splatcodsig.jpg&&&&&&

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Reply #3 - Jun 2^nd, 2006 at 6:57pm

ashaman Offline
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I won't.

I'm getting sicker and sicker of the presumption of a single (no names needed) to feel so great to think to be able to command other's choices only by throttling the market.

Vista is, I'm quite sure, the swan song of M$.

Call me Cassandra, if you will...

Linux, here I come.

There's but one real cure for human stupidity. It's called DEATH.&&&&At the moment mourning the assassination of sarcasm and irony for the good of the "higher".&&&&Proud FSIX user. Active user of FS98, X-plane and novice of Orbiter.&&&&Seen the GREAT service pack for FSX and its usefulness, really awaiting for FS11 to upgrade.&&&&AMD Athlon Xp 2400@2700&&MB Asus A7V8XX&&1Gb ram DDR 400 @ 333&&ASL Nvidia Geforce 6600gt 128Mb DDR3 AGP&&Creative Sound Blaster Live&&Windows XP Professional Sp2&&2 HD Maxtor 40Gb - 1 HD Maxtor 80Gb

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Reply #4 - Jun 2^nd, 2006 at 7:42pm

Katahu Offline
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Quote:

I won't.

I'm getting sicker and sicker of the presumption of a single (no names needed) to feel so great to think to be able to command other's choices only by throttling the market.

Vista is, I'm quite sure, the swan song of M$.

Call me Cassandra, if you will...

Linux, here I come.

Uh... I doubt Linux would be any different if it were in charge of the world instead of M$. Undecided

Besides, like someone else in this forum mentioned, Bill Gates started a computer revolution that led to improvements on computers. And don't forget that buying the upgrades is a choice made by comsumers who decide on their own free will. Tell me, did Bill Gates ever made you give up the old versions of FS [by force] so that you "must" buy the newer versions? Did you really think that computer programs of the future will still rely heavily on archaic systems like my long-retired computer that costed no more than $500 and "not" try to take full advantage of the latest harrdware?

Also don't forget that many of us have demanded better graphics and dynamics. To achieve such a level of realism, FS must have a better system for rendering if you want the whole cake instead of a slice. Look at IL-2 Sturmovik at Ubi Soft. Oleg and his team said that the new flight models used complex algorithyms that require more resources. Also look at X-Plane. It also requires resources to render the extremely complex dynamics and weather effects.

Here is my system spec:

Pentium 4 Processor with 2.4 GHZ
512 MB RAM
370 GB of total Hard Drive Space
ATI Radeon 9600 with 64 MB of Memory [plus the updates]
Windows XP Home Edition [plus updates]

IL-2, X-Plane, Doom 3, America's Army and FS9 are all struggling in this system that costed me $1,600 while FS95, Razorwork's Apache Havoc, FS98 and CFS1 are having a bit of trouble understanding my system.

So, if you feel that FS9 will be way better than FSX then go ahead and stick with it. But just remember that one day when you want to play the latest games and sims 10-20 years down the road you should expect to cough up your money for upgrading.

And one more thing:

Moore's law will always be in effect regardless if you choose the PC or the Mac. Wink

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Reply #5 - Jun 3^rd, 2006 at 4:12am

x_jasper Offline
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Oh so it now transpires you also need a new video card ! oh well. Angry

The moral here is look at M$ business ethics: 'standardise nothing, always sell beta, never give em a good product cos if you do they won't buy another one.'

I'd hedge a bet that with FSX running on DX9 not only will it run p*** poor, certain features might even be disabled.

Of course every so often M$ are going to say "Oh look, here's a new package" They do it on purpose.

You don't really need a debate on Vista & DX10, we got shafted yet again and until there is a standardised simulator core, I won't be buying any more. Nine of them so far at ~ £50 a piece really is about enough now.

Jasper

P4 2.5. massive huge 10 foot display.

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Reply #6 - Jun 3^rd, 2006 at 7:15am

vololiberista Offline
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People here on SV moan constantly about frame rates even when they have top range CPU's graphics cards etc. When those same people install FSX onto their current systems they will probably have a frame rate of 1 or 2 per week!!!

Only the most cutting edge PC's will be able to run FSX at a reasonable frame rate and certainly most "enhancements" will be disabled unless one buys Vista.

FS9 on a PC with good specs with the best scenery, airports etc will live on for quite some time. Many people are still using the earlier sims simply because now they get decent frame rates.
Personally I wouldn't consider FSX for at least a couple of years. A chance to have some of the bugs ironed out of Vista (it will ship with at least 33,000 as did XP on launch)
Especially as earlier this year M$ had to go right back to the drawing board 'cause it didn't work at all!!!!)
Vololiberista

Andiamo in Italia&&

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Reply #7 - Jun 3^rd, 2006 at 11:35am

ashaman Offline
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Quote:

Uh... I doubt Linux would be any different if it were in charge of the world instead of M$. Undecided

In fact, the owner of Linux would.

Who is the owner of Linux, btw? I can't seem to remember.

Quote:

Besides, like someone else in this forum mentioned, Bill Gates started a computer revolution that led to improvements on computers. And don't forget that buying the upgrades is a choice made by comsumers who decide on their own free will. Tell me, did Bill Gates ever made you give up the old versions of FS [by force] so that you "must" buy the newer versions? Did you really think that computer programs of the future will still rely heavily on archaic systems like my long-retired computer that costed no more than $500 and "not" try to take full advantage of the latest harrdware?

I seem to remember someone say that the 640kb of the DOS would be anything the users EVER would need. I seem to remember someone say that internet was a fad, only to try and make "the Microsoft Network"... do any of you remember THAT part of PC story and how it so strangely sank?

Doesn't remember you of something he is trying to pass right about in these days? does the name "palladium" mean nothing to you?

You think it will come to pass or will be another "the Microsoft Network"?

Started a computer revolution... how generous of him and his LUCK (among other not so clean things), not ability in any field.

Quote:

Also don't forget that many of us have demanded better graphics and dynamics. To achieve such a level of realism, FS must have a better system for rendering if you want the whole cake instead of a slice. Look at IL-2 Sturmovik at Ubi Soft. Oleg and his team said that the new flight models used complex algorithyms that require more resources. Also look at X-Plane. It also requires resources to render the extremely complex dynamics and weather effects.

And we had the graphics... ONLY... attached to a proprietary and incompatible-with-the-past system attached itself to that scumbag that is the palladium, attached to a need of a CPU that it's at least 3000Mhz and 2Gb Ram and 300 GB HD.

You have any real proof of any advancement in any other field? Hand it over to us all, please. We need it to hope in the future.

Quote:

Pentium 4 Processor with 2.4 GHZ
512 MB RAM
370 GB of total Hard Drive Space
ATI Radeon 9600 with 64 MB of Memory [plus the updates]
Windows XP Home Edition [plus updates]

IL-2, X-Plane, Doom 3, America's Army and FS9 are all struggling in this system that costed me $1,600 while FS95, Razorwork's Apache Havoc, FS98 and CFS1 are having a bit of trouble understanding my system.

So, if you feel that FS9 will be way better than FSX then go ahead and stick with it. But just remember that one day when you want to play the latest games and sims 10-20 years down the road you should expect to cough up your money for upgrading.

Whoever talked about FS9 forever. And the flight simulators are the only kind of games I use nowadays.

With my specs, as in signature, I can run X-plane in a way I was NEVER able to run FS9. Let's not even start about the probabilities of running FSX.

Quote:

And one more thing:

Moore's law will always be in effect regardless if you choose the PC or the Mac. Wink

Undoubtely.

But.

Not.

In.

The.

Same.

Way.

Amen.

PS
I'm not about to leave the PC world (to go MAC, even... bleagh). Only M$£€.

Only PC based Linux in MY future.

There's but one real cure for human stupidity. It's called DEATH.&&&&At the moment mourning the assassination of sarcasm and irony for the good of the "higher".&&&&Proud FSIX user. Active user of FS98, X-plane and novice of Orbiter.&&&&Seen the GREAT service pack for FSX and its usefulness, really awaiting for FS11 to upgrade.&&&&AMD Athlon Xp 2400@2700&&MB Asus A7V8XX&&1Gb ram DDR 400 @ 333&&ASL Nvidia Geforce 6600gt 128Mb DDR3 AGP&&Creative Sound Blaster Live&&Windows XP Professional Sp2&&2 HD Maxtor 40Gb - 1 HD Maxtor 80Gb

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Reply #8 - Jun 3^rd, 2006 at 12:46pm

Katahu Offline
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In fact, the owner of Linux would.

Who is the owner of Linux, btw? I can't seem to remember.

I seem to remember someone say that the 640kb of the DOS would be anything the users EVER would need. I seem to remember someone say that internet was a fad, only to try and make "the Microsoft Network"... do any of you remember THAT part of PC story and how it so strangely sank?

Doesn't remember you of something he is trying to pass right about in these days? does the name "palladium" mean nothing to you?

You think it will come to pass or will be another "the Microsoft Network"?

Started a computer revolution... how generous of him and his LUCK (among other not so clean things), not ability in any field.

And we had the graphics... ONLY... attached to a proprietary and incompatible-with-the-past system attached itself to that scumbag that is the palladium, attached to a need of a CPU that it's at least 3000Mhz and 2Gb Ram and 300 GB HD.

You have any real proof of any advancement in any other field? Hand it over to us all, please. We need it to hope in the future.

Whoever talked about FS9 forever. And the flight simulators are the only kind of games I use nowadays.

With my specs, as in signature, I can run X-plane in a way I was NEVER able to run FS9. Let's not even start about the probabilities of running FSX.

Undoubtely.

But.

Not.

In.

The.

Same.

Way.

Amen.

PS
I'm not about to leave the PC world (to go MAC, even... bleagh). Only M$£€.

Only PC based Linux in MY future.

This is why I *try* my best to stay away from topics like this. It's kind of like politics. There's an elephant on one side and a donkey on the other. The elephant is stubborn because it never forgets and the ass is always an ass. Grin

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Reply #9 - Jun 3^rd, 2006 at 12:53pm

ashaman Offline
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in my text are a given.
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Quote:

This is why I *try* my best to stay away from topics like this. It's kind of like politics. There's an elephant on one side and a donkey on the other. The elephant is stubborn because it never forgets and the ass is always an ass. Grin

You're right, Katahu.

And if you were from where I live, you'd know to what kind of people one always give the "you're right" phrase.

There's but one real cure for human stupidity. It's called DEATH.&&&&At the moment mourning the assassination of sarcasm and irony for the good of the "higher".&&&&Proud FSIX user. Active user of FS98, X-plane and novice of Orbiter.&&&&Seen the GREAT service pack for FSX and its usefulness, really awaiting for FS11 to upgrade.&&&&AMD Athlon Xp 2400@2700&&MB Asus A7V8XX&&1Gb ram DDR 400 @ 333&&ASL Nvidia Geforce 6600gt 128Mb DDR3 AGP&&Creative Sound Blaster Live&&Windows XP Professional Sp2&&2 HD Maxtor 40Gb - 1 HD Maxtor 80Gb

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Reply #10 - Jun 3^rd, 2006 at 1:16pm

x_jasper Offline
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I agree with ashaman on this, even if his method is a little unorthodox. Grin

Interesting to note he is from Italy. It does seem a fact that most 'anti-M$' rattlings eminate from Europe. There might be something in this, I wouldn't like to say for certain it was down to Europeans being less gullible, but I do wonder who it is on this planet who keeps falling for the same old tricks and keeps M$ in business. Whoever it is, it's not Europe.

I have a feeling vista, DX10 and FSX are not going to sell very well in Europe, certainly from what I am reading European simmers are less interested in forced upgrades than say those in the US market.

N.B. linux won't do you much good, not for flight sims.
No one owns Linux as such, it is open source.
Linux is really only for those with 'different' brains.

Jasper

P4 2.5. massive huge 10 foot display.

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Reply #11 - Jun 3^rd, 2006 at 1:46pm

vololiberista Offline
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Vieni in Italia

Posts: 1042

Europe won't allow Vista to be sold at all unless M$ allow third party software alongside their own. Remember the long court case????
And whilst talking about upgrades why are we still having to use IBM 1980's technology. Many early computers the Beeb for one (1981) had an operating system on chip and only used a hard disc for data storage.
Vololiberista

Andiamo in Italia&&

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Reply #12 - Jun 3^rd, 2006 at 3:55pm

Katahu Offline
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The difference between us crazy yanks and the European folks is that we yanks have a mentality that encourages us to get the latest and greatest stuff that operates automatically with little human effort. Why do you think we Americans are starting to create houses that run on their own with a push of a button and are creating cell phones that allow us all to watch ESPN so that we can see the Miami Heat make it to the NBA Finals? Grin

What I'm trying to say is that there are Americans out there that are sometimes a bit too lazy to fiddle around with an open source system and prefer to let the computer do most of the work for us. Grin

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Reply #13 - Jun 3^rd, 2006 at 4:30pm

x_jasper Offline
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"Why do you think we Americans are starting to create houses that run on their own with a push of a button"

The above is the reason why America has more fat arses than any other nation on the planet.

Jasper

« Last Edit: Jun 4^th, 2006 at 4:06am by x_jasper »

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Reply #14 - Jun 3^rd, 2006 at 10:58pm

Mushroom_Farmer Offline
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Do like I do......wait a couple years or more and by the software and system second-hand and save oodles of dinero in the process.
As far as Linux, it fills a niche market but as stated earlier isn't really a gaming system. There's no profit writing kick rearend open source games. I wouldn't be surprised if someday some corporation aquires the rights to it and it no longer is open-source. Remember, MAC OS was open source in the beginning.

&&&&"We're just sitting here trying to put our PCjrs in a pile and burn them. And the damn things won't burn. That's the only thing IBM did right with it - they made it flameproof." && Spinnaker Software chairman William Bowman, 1985

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Reply #15 - Jun 4^th, 2006 at 4:26am

x_jasper Offline
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Interesting comments mushroom

Everyone knows what a flop CFS3 turned out to be, but actually on a typical average PC these days CFS2 will run like a dream - all settings at maximum.

I think there is definately some truth in the suggestion that US and European markets are different, and becoming more so.

There is clearly a difference of opinion as to what M$ marketing strategy actually is, in the US they call it progress and they don't mind being controlled by large corporate bodies who tell them what they will be buying.

Not so easy in Europe generally, for one thing we have Brussels which to a large extent protects the consumer from monopolies.

I alone decide what I will buy, and if what is on offer conforms to my exacting requirements. If it does not, I don't buy. Simple.

So far, I am not impressed that DX10 will not be available for XP. Therefore I will not purchase Vista.

I am not impressed that FSX requires Vista so as to get DX10. Therefore I will not purchase FSX.

I am not impressed that DX10 requires a DX10 Video card. "well what a surprise! " (always a note of truth in sarcasm)

MAC now has dual boot, use this to run XP and whatever flight sim you fancy.

Jasper

P4 2.5. massive huge 10 foot display.

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Reply #16 - Jun 4^th, 2006 at 8:35am

ashaman Offline
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Quote:

There is clearly a difference of opinion as to what M$ marketing strategy actually is, in the US they call it progress and they don't mind being controlled by large corporate bodies who tell them what they will be buying.

If true, this would paint quite a bleak picture of american people.

If true, I can't help but ask myself where is the vaunted "american freedom" gone.

Perhaps in the vaults of some bank(s).

If true, I dearly hope not everyone there is like that. It would be sad.

There's but one real cure for human stupidity. It's called DEATH.&&&&At the moment mourning the assassination of sarcasm and irony for the good of the "higher".&&&&Proud FSIX user. Active user of FS98, X-plane and novice of Orbiter.&&&&Seen the GREAT service pack for FSX and its usefulness, really awaiting for FS11 to upgrade.&&&&AMD Athlon Xp 2400@2700&&MB Asus A7V8XX&&1Gb ram DDR 400 @ 333&&ASL Nvidia Geforce 6600gt 128Mb DDR3 AGP&&Creative Sound Blaster Live&&Windows XP Professional Sp2&&2 HD Maxtor 40Gb - 1 HD Maxtor 80Gb

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Reply #17 - Jun 4^th, 2006 at 10:02am

x_jasper Offline
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US markets have always been like that. Commerce always has been in the driving seat of their consumer markets, not the consumer himself. It's just how their economy is structured.

Over there the consumers get what they are given. In fact, many Americans will tell you they are dismayed by what in recent years has become 'Corporate America' since the global economy came into being.

Think on that the global economy was not necessarily a global invention.

In Europe it tends to be very different, i.e. the punters are the ones who decide what will be on offer and what is good or not so good, generally.

Moral here is, if you don't like what M$ offer (or try to enforce) simply don't accept it. If enough people did this they would eventually get the message

Do what some people do and make sure you run a previous version of flight sim on a PC with upto date spec. This way the software houses are always one step behind you. Alternatively just go MAC, and you can dispense with the likes of Vista etc.

"Bloatware"-----No thanks!! 8)

Jasper

P4 2.5. massive huge 10 foot display.

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Reply #18 - Jun 4^th, 2006 at 11:23am

Felix/FFDS Offline
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Quote:

Not so easy in Europe generally, for one thing we have Brussels which to a large extent protects the consumer from monopolies.

More and more Brussels sounds like "I know what you need, trust me. And what you need is pap to make the masses happy."

Quote:

I alone decide what I will buy, and if what is on offer conforms to my exacting requirements. If it does not, I don't buy. Simple.

And the difference in the US?

Might I note that more and more consumerism in the US is European driven?

Quote:

MAC now has dual boot, use this to run XP and whatever flight sim you fancy.

Jasper

Q: I understand that MAC has now gone over to INTEL for it's processor? How much longer before VISTA and MacOS become one and the same?

Felix/FFDS

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Reply #19 - Jun 4^th, 2006 at 11:37am

ashaman Offline
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Q: I understand that MAC has now gone over to INTEL for it's processor? How much longer before VISTA and MacOS become one and the same?

Aren't they already?

I was given to understand that BOTH OF THEM support that abort called "palladium".

There's but one real cure for human stupidity. It's called DEATH.&&&&At the moment mourning the assassination of sarcasm and irony for the good of the "higher".&&&&Proud FSIX user. Active user of FS98, X-plane and novice of Orbiter.&&&&Seen the GREAT service pack for FSX and its usefulness, really awaiting for FS11 to upgrade.&&&&AMD Athlon Xp 2400@2700&&MB Asus A7V8XX&&1Gb ram DDR 400 @ 333&&ASL Nvidia Geforce 6600gt 128Mb DDR3 AGP&&Creative Sound Blaster Live&&Windows XP Professional Sp2&&2 HD Maxtor 40Gb - 1 HD Maxtor 80Gb

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Reply #20 - Jun 4^th, 2006 at 12:37pm

x_jasper Offline
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[quote author=Felix/FFDS link=board=FSX;num=1149021675;start=15#18 date=06/04/06 at 11:23:58]
More and more Brussels sounds like "I know what you need, trust me. And what you need is pap to make the masses happy."

And the difference in the US?

Might I note that more and more consumerism in the US is European driven?

Q: I understand that MAC has now gone over to INTEL for it's processor? How much longer before VISTA and MacOS become one and the same?

Where is this European 'pap' from Brussels ? there is none because we don't make pap.

In-fact we don't make, sell, buy or eat 'pap'

More and more consumerism in the US is corporate driven, of chinese manufacture and of course at the cost of US jobs.

Forums do suggest the average simmer in the US is prapared to accept simming software with bugs/glitches, and they don't mind upgrading either.

The opposite seems generally true in Europe.

I didn't invent this it's what people are saying, and reading forums etc on the net does show a difference in consumer attitude between the two markets.

OSX & Vista the same ? LMAO

Regards
Jasper

P4 2.5. massive huge 10 foot display.

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Reply #21 - Jun 4^th, 2006 at 12:50pm

Katahu Offline
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OSX & Vista the same ? LMAO

Regards
Jasper

I wouldn't laugh if I were you. Chances are it could one day or might already be true. I've seen it happen. Take politics for example. One would think that the two political parties are different but in fact their the same. "Poli" means "many" while "tics" means "life-sucking insects" and therefore "politics means "many life-sucking insects" and each new insect is just as worse as the last. Wink

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Reply #22 - Jun 4^th, 2006 at 1:52pm

x_jasper Offline
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Lol I guess you could be right there. Perhaps we ought to shoot a few insect politicians, just as they have done in the US.

Jasper Grin

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