Search the archive:
YaBB - Yet another Bulletin Board
 
   
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
BA in trouble in the US (Read 340 times)
Apr 3rd, 2006 at 6:12am

ozzy72   Offline
Global Moderator
Pretty scary huh?
Madsville

Gender: male
Posts: 37122
*****
 
The US airline safety authority is proposing to impose its maximum fine of $25,000 (£14,000) on British Airways for flying a jumbo jet from Los Angeles to Britain despite the fact that one of its engines had broken down shortly after take-off.
In an embarrassing chastisement, the US Federal Aviation Administration has accused BA of operating an aircraft in an "unairworthy condition" by failing to cut short the 5,500-mile flight when the fault arose.
Air traffic controllers at Los Angeles airport spotted sparks coming from one of the Boeing 747's four engines a few seconds after it took off in February last year. After contacting BA's operations base in London for advice, the captain opted to continue with the 11-hour flight on only three serviceable engines.
However, the fault meant the plane had to fly at a lower altitude and it burnt far more fuel than usual. By the time it reached British airspace, its tanks were so low that the pilot declared an emergency and landed at Manchester.
By pressing ahead with the flight, the aircraft avoided an estimated £100,000 bill for delay compensation to the 351 people on board.
The FAA has filed a complaint against BA which points out that the plane bypassed "numerous suitable alternative airfields" for a diversion in the US and Canada.
BA is to appeal, vowing to vigorously assert its innocence. The incident has prompted a transatlantic rift. The airline is unapologetic, insisting that nobody was put at risk and that its actions were perfectly within the rules and that it has the support of Britain's Civil Aviation Authority.
 

...
There are two types of aeroplane, Spitfires and everything else that wishes it was a Spitfire!
IP Logged
 
Reply #1 - Apr 3rd, 2006 at 6:54am

Woodlouse2002   Offline
Colonel
I like jam.
Cornwall, England

Gender: male
Posts: 12574
*****
 
Quote:
the US Federal Aviation Administration has accused BA of operating an aircraft in an "unairworthy condition"

Interesting point considering the unairworthy aircraft flew across the atlantic... Grin
 

Woodlouse2002 PITA and BAR!!!!!!!!&&&&Our Sovereign Lord the King chargeth and commandeth all persons, being assembled, immediately to disperse themselves, and peaceably to depart to their habitations, or to their lawful business, upon the pains contained in the Act made in the first year of King George the First for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies. God Save the King.&&&&Viva la revolution!
IP Logged
 
Reply #2 - Apr 3rd, 2006 at 8:16am

Chris_F   Offline
Colonel
Insert message here

Posts: 1364
*****
 
Let's see, BA avoided a 100,000 pound  fine (delay compensation?  What the heck is that?) in favor of a $25,000 fine.  Sounds like a smart choice to me!
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #3 - Apr 3rd, 2006 at 8:24am

Tom.   Offline
Colonel
Image removed, do not
link!

Gender: male
Posts: 874
*****
 
Quote:
Interesting point considering the unairworthy aircraft flew across the atlantic... Grin


Well i think that the FAA are really making a fuss over nothing  ive seen worse done like an A340 landing at heathrow without clearance  Roll Eyes
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #4 - Apr 3rd, 2006 at 10:25am

Brett_Henderson   Offline
Colonel
EVERY OUTER MARKER SHOULD
BE AN NDB

Gender: male
Posts: 3593
*****
 
I'd imagine the 100,000 expense would have been in refunds.. rebookings.. lost revenue..  etc.

Anyway .. If a pilot took ME over the Atlantic ocean in a 747 on three engines (if it barey made it on three.. imagine if a second failure happend 1/2-way across the pond) when he could have easily landed somewhere on the continent.. I'd beat the poop out of him after we landed.
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #5 - Apr 3rd, 2006 at 11:24am
Heathaze   Ex Member

 
Irresponsable and selfish behaviour from BA, they deserve every penny they get taken off them and probably more for that!
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #6 - Apr 3rd, 2006 at 12:56pm

Woodlouse2002   Offline
Colonel
I like jam.
Cornwall, England

Gender: male
Posts: 12574
*****
 
Quote:
Well i think that the FAA are really making a fuss over nothing  ive seen worse done like an A340 landing at heathrow without clearance  Roll Eyes

My point exactly. How can a plane be unairworthy if it flew 8000 miles?

And BA instead of losing £100,000 might lose $25,000 which is what? £15? Grin
 

Woodlouse2002 PITA and BAR!!!!!!!!&&&&Our Sovereign Lord the King chargeth and commandeth all persons, being assembled, immediately to disperse themselves, and peaceably to depart to their habitations, or to their lawful business, upon the pains contained in the Act made in the first year of King George the First for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies. God Save the King.&&&&Viva la revolution!
IP Logged
 
Reply #7 - Apr 3rd, 2006 at 1:15pm

Chris_F   Offline
Colonel
Insert message here

Posts: 1364
*****
 
I know that in order to fly over the water a plane has to be rated to fly if it loses an engine.  Given the 747 didn't leave landfall before it lost an engine that would mean, to me, that in order to fly over water it must be capable of flying after losing another engine.  Can a 747 fly on two?

"Airworthyness", especially in the case of airline transportation, may include criteria beyond strictly the ability to stay airborne.  Sure a plane could be "airworthy" if it loses cabin pressure and the doors fly off.  But would that be safe?  If airworthyness is strictly the ability to fly then you could easily have perfectly airworthy planes which routinely kill all their passengers.

BA is definately neglegent.
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #8 - Apr 3rd, 2006 at 2:58pm

beefhole   Offline
Colonel
common' yigs!
Philadelphia

Gender: male
Posts: 4466
*****
 
Well, the bare fact is that a 747 is perfectly and safely flyable on three engines (and operable on two, assuming it's not too heavy).

But, for an 11-hour 8000 mile trip that you planned to make with four engines?  I would say it wasn't a wise choice-declaring an emergency shouldnt've been necessary.  They could've continued across the pond on three engines (it's been done before), but they should've stopped for fuel on THIS side of the Atlantic.
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #9 - Apr 3rd, 2006 at 3:32pm

C   Offline
Colonel
Earth

Posts: 13144
*****
 
Considering we've been in an ETOPS world for some years, what's the problem with three?

Still think it was a bad decision though, but not one that was their own fault, just one caused by the ridiculous compensation laws brought in by the EU*... Roll Eyes

...*and people complain when fares rise! Roll Eyes
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #10 - Apr 3rd, 2006 at 9:42pm

Brett_Henderson   Offline
Colonel
EVERY OUTER MARKER SHOULD
BE AN NDB

Gender: male
Posts: 3593
*****
 
Quote:
My point exactly. How can a plane be unairworthy if it flew 8000 miles?



I'm not sure a plane that couldn't  reach its cruise altitude or make it across an OCEAN without declaring a fuel emergency had demonstrated airworthiness, even if it were only full of cargo.. Let alone hundreds of humans.

A 172 that's not in full compliance with ALL the Airworthiness Directives will most likely fly all day long, every day, just fine..  BUT IT'S NOT Airworthy..

 
IP Logged
 
Reply #11 - Apr 4th, 2006 at 6:09pm

Chris_F   Offline
Colonel
Insert message here

Posts: 1364
*****
 
Quote:
Still think it was a bad decision though, but not one that was their own fault, just one caused by the ridiculous compensation laws brought in by the EU*... Roll Eyes

...*and people complain when fares rise! Roll Eyes


Legislators should have suspected this would be the eventual outcome of such a law.  What's a few more fatal crashes a year so long as people get to where they're going on time...
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #12 - Apr 4th, 2006 at 8:35pm

chomp_rock   Offline
Colonel
I must confess, I was
born at a very early
age.

Gender: male
Posts: 2718
*****
 
Bah! It made it on 3, it could've made it on two as well if another failed.  Not to mention that that kind of thing has happened quite a few times in the 747's long history, I can't recall it ever leading to a crash, or fatality for that matter.
 

AMD Athlon 64 3700+&&GeForce FX5200 256Mb&&1GB DDR400 DC&&Seagate 500Gb SATA-300 HDD&&Windows XP Professional X64 Edition
&&&&That's right, I'm now using an AMD! I decided to give them another try and they kicked the pants off of my P4 3.4!
IP Logged
 
Reply #13 - Apr 4th, 2006 at 10:02pm

beefhole   Offline
Colonel
common' yigs!
Philadelphia

Gender: male
Posts: 4466
*****
 
Quote:
Bah! It made it on 3, it could've made it on two as well if another failed.  Not to mention that that kind of thing has happened quite a few times in the 747's long history, I can't recall it ever leading to a crash, or fatality for that matter.

But this time it lead to an unnecessary, preventable fuel emergency.  The procedures need to be rectified for the future.
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send Topic Print