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PPU? (Read 2812 times)
Mar 21st, 2006 at 12:00pm

kipman725   Offline
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Is FSX going to use the new cards made by Ageria:
http://www.ageia.com/index.html

the fluid modeling could make for some awsome storm effects as sheets of water fall off the wings and as the phyisics are not just visual effects the water ect. could affect the planes handeling with it's weight on controll surfaces ect.

also things like wind could be modeled alot better and colisions could be much more realistic (think realisticly crumpled gear).
 

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Reply #1 - Mar 21st, 2006 at 5:29pm

Delta_   Offline
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It takes a little more than a GFX card to model physics of a real world.  Research companies use over 4000 supercomputer processors just to model a few seconds of water, and that takes 3 weeks of processing.

I expect the approach taken in Half life 2 would be more appropriate.  Where things like that are scripted rather than modelled.

However it can certainly help the performance of games and allow a better more realistic looking world.

I heard a while back about GFX cards having a seperate processor on them designed specifically for enhanced (performance/quality) physics engines.  What happened to that idea?  ???
 

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Reply #2 - Mar 21st, 2006 at 5:42pm

kipman725   Offline
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this card is capable of real phyisics not just fancy effects.  Forces such as gravity are modeled corectly which is why it's so awsome.  Grin
 

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Reply #3 - Mar 21st, 2006 at 5:44pm

ctjoyce   Offline
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Yes, but FS wouln't use that. Those are $1,000+ cards. Most people want to spend $1K on a computer, not on a GPU alone.

Cheers
Cameron
 

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Reply #4 - Mar 21st, 2006 at 5:47pm

kipman725   Offline
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Quote:
Yes, but FS wouln't use that. Those are $1,000+ cards. Most people want to spend $1K on a computer, not on a GPU alone.

Cheers
Cameron


PPU!
no gpu this is a dedicated proccesor for phyisics and they will cost about $250 not $100 and fit pci and PCI-E slots.  They are to be available Q2 06 and are to be manufacrued by BFG and ASUS.
 

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Reply #5 - Mar 21st, 2006 at 6:32pm

SkyNoz   Offline
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Very interessting,....guess something to look into. Grin
 

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Reply #6 - Mar 21st, 2006 at 6:51pm

Crumbso   Offline
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Screw the water, this could mean huge improvements in the flight moder. Just think proll stall, spin, off-axis performance.
 
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Reply #7 - Mar 21st, 2006 at 10:01pm

SkyNoz   Offline
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Quote:
Screw the water, this could mean huge improvements in the flight moder. Just think proll stall, spin, off-axis performance.


Or real like aircraft spins, stalls and departures, woow that would be super fly. Really interessting topic there... Grin
 

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Reply #8 - Mar 21st, 2006 at 10:22pm

ctjoyce   Offline
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Well have any of you looked into the engine behind DX10? Alot of the features described here are going to be avalible. Plus they have been telling us that FSX is going to be more real than ever, and not just the GFX. So I believe that flight models are going to be way improoved, and we may be the nearest we ever have been to the utmost realism.

Cheers
Cameron
 

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Reply #9 - Mar 22nd, 2006 at 6:29am

Crumbso   Offline
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Yes but don't you see, you have this card "plus" your normal GFX card. Meaning that this card deals with the complex physics while your GFX card deals with all the eye-candy making it a far smoother and realistic experience.

Watching some of the videos looks like it could be quite promising.
 
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Reply #10 - Mar 22nd, 2006 at 9:46am

Sterk   Offline
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Guys,you are missing one important point-this thing has nothing common with graphic card...Its completely different device.Graphic card NEVER caclulates physics and dynamics,its CPU's job only!

So Physics card its addition to CPU,not to GPU,so why should it be combined with GPU?Did anybody ever combine LAN card with HDD?
 

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Reply #11 - Mar 22nd, 2006 at 10:22am

-sam-   Offline
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These physic engines are build to simulate hard/softbody dynamics,fracture systems, ragdolls, fluids and stuff like that.
I don´t see to much fields where this could be used in Flighsim... for landings and flight behaviour a much simpler software engine is more than enough. And seriously... having thousands of raindrops
floating over your plane with fluid dynamics.. is still something for a super computer... and can be faked
with much less ressource.

@sterk.. with pixel/vertex shader you also can programm physical behaviour directly into the GFX Card
 

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Reply #12 - Mar 23rd, 2006 at 10:10am

Sterk   Offline
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Quote:
@sterk.. with pixel/vertex shader you also can programm physical behaviour directly into the GFX Card


physical behaviour of what?

The word "shader" already means that we are talking about graphical stuff,wich isnt handled by this device.

"Shader" is the way graphic card draws object on our screen.Physical interaction of this object with  other objects or forces in the scene is something complitely different.

When a car hits a pillar,daz the power of collision depend on the color of this car?

 

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Reply #13 - Mar 23rd, 2006 at 11:04am

-sam-   Offline
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I know.. usually the word "shader" just defines the behaviour of a surface relative to a light source. But the definition
Pixel/Vertex Shader goes much further.. For example they use pixelshader to simulate 2d warp effects on a screen or bending Surfaces.. etc.
Im general you probabely could code anything with vertex/pixel shader. Also physical behaviour.
Of course the GPU is not optimzed for such operations
like a PPU would be.. but it works !!
check this PDF...
this is the description of a demo that uses the Shader Model 3
to simulate clothes (softbody dynamics)
http://download.developer.nvidia.com/developer/SDK/Individual_Samples/DEMOS/Dire...

Here a short quote from the PDF

""
What Is This? The sample demonstrates how to use Shader Model 3.0 to simulate and render cloth on the GPU. The cloth vertex positions are computed through several pixel shaders and saved into a texture. A vertex shader then reads these positions using Vertex Texture Fetch (VTF) to render the cloth. More information can be found in Cloth.pdf
""

Just today I came across an interesting article.. Actually
it´s german..
http://www.pcgames.de/?article_id=458500

It says that Nvidia will add PPu´s directly to their
Graphic Cards in the future... I think this is a great idea.
I don´t want to be forced to install another Card just to run a certain game.

cheers
 

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Reply #14 - Apr 1st, 2006 at 4:11am

Fighting_Falcon   Offline
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It's already pretty expensive to build a gaming pc, add a PPU and it'll get very expensive. Saying it'll cost only $250 is not true. As GPUs, these cards will get more and more powerful, more and more expensive. Eventually, games will require those cards but that'll be one more thing to consider when building a config. I guess in the end it'll be like GPUs. At first, GPUs weren't very used but now almost everyone got a GC, even on  pcs not used for gaming, and Windows Vista will make GCs obligatory.

Prices will drop though. Ten years ago, a gaming pc, though ten times less powerful, cost the same price as today.

Anyways, PPUs will be a good thing for gamers even if when they come out they'll be pretty expensive.

I don't have time to develop a lot but I'll do it later  Wink
 

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Reply #15 - Apr 1st, 2006 at 6:10am

kipman725   Offline
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Quote:
It's already pretty expensive to build a gaming pc, add a PPU and it'll get very expensive. Saying it'll cost only $250 is not true. As GPUs, these cards will get more and more powerful, more and more expensive. Eventually, games will require those cards but that'll be one more thing to consider when building a config. I guess in the end it'll be like GPUs. At first, GPUs weren't very used but now almost everyone got a GC, even on  pcs not used for gaming, and Windows Vista will make GCs obligatory.


the Idea with the ppu was only to have one model for quite a few years and continualy lower the price only updating the software side of it.
Prices will drop though. Ten years ago, a gaming pc, though ten times less powerful, cost the same price as today.

Anyways, PPUs will be a good thing for gamers even if when they come out they'll be pretty expensive.

I don't have time to develop a lot but I'll do it later  Wink

 

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Reply #16 - Apr 3rd, 2006 at 10:50am

-sam-   Offline
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By the way.. if you are interrested in fluid dynamics and stuff
like that.. check the 2 quicktimes on this page
(Both are 100% Computer Generated)
http://www.flowlines.info/gallery.html

These are of course non-realtime dynamics.. but so far
the best fluid simulation I have seen !!
 

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