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JSF and the UK? (Read 1100 times)
Reply #30 - Mar 17th, 2006 at 5:12am

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Your right we do fly one british aircraft, *ONLY ONE*. The harrier Jump jet. ~cough~ ~cough~ which is amazingly related to this topic, why would US design a replacement for the Harrier....? And after the replacing, will the US aquire any UK aircraft?


...and the Canberra, and the next Presidential helicopter will be an Americanised EH101 Merlin Wink Grin To be fair quite a lot of the JSF technology is British anyway. Maybe the UK government should look at portecting the flight control system and give the US a restricted example... Wink Grin

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Also, look at your aircraft roster, you may find that 10% of it might be American Fighters.


Well, not as such - although the Harrier II admittedly was a 50/50 BAe/McDonnell Douglas effort... Wink

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What pisses me off is when some citizen of UK says our American Fighters look like crap, sooo what


Well, the UK did design the Spitfire, the Hunter and the Comet (ok, the square window were a bad idea...). And the Vulcan too... Wink Smiley Grin

Anyway, JSF, Rafale, Gripen, Typhooon - I'll happily take any of them. Or an F-22 for that matter... Grin Grin Grin




*PLEASE NOTE - ALL COMMENTS (except the last) WERE MADE FIRMLY TONGUE IN CHEEK! Grin Grin Grin
 
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Reply #31 - Mar 17th, 2006 at 5:40am

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*PLEASE NOTE - ALL COMMENTS (except the last) WERE MADE FIRMLY TONGUE IN CHEEK! Grin Grin Grin

Indeed. I think some people need to lighten up a little. Wink

Back to the point of this topic. The JSF is an international project involving many different nations. Britain is a 'full collaborative partner' & the British taxpayer is helping to fund its development. I think the British government has every right to insist on the tems of the original agreement being kept.
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The United Kingdom became a full collaborative partner in the program in 1995. Denmark, Norway, The Netherlands, Canada and Italy subsequently joined the program as cooperative partners. Singapore, Turkey and Israel are foreign military sales participants for this phase. The United Kingdom has signed an agreement to participate in the System Development and Demonstration (SDD) phase of the program. Agreements with additional countries for SDD participation are in progress.
http://www.jsf.mil/history/his_f35.htm

As for the 'advanced' technology, this looks pretty familiar to me. http://www.vstol.org/wheel/VSTOLWheel/ShortSC-1.htm
 
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Reply #32 - Mar 17th, 2006 at 8:13am

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Just like a little red button. So tempting to press it Grin By the way I am surprised someone hasn't had a field day on the spelling in this topic. Roll Eyes
 
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Reply #33 - Mar 17th, 2006 at 9:27am

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 The US military strategic decisions are far from infalible..

I don't want to really enter the pointless debate, but remember the decision to go with the F15 replacement was made back during the cold war when it looked like upcoming Soviet aircraft would be a match for the F15.  The decision to continue with the F22 after the end of the cold war though, may be a bit silly.  The F22 is a spectacular aircraft, probably the best air superiority craft the world will see for the next 40 years or so (or if world peace breaks out, it may be the absolute pinnacle) but it doesn't really have a mission anymore, does it?
 
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Reply #34 - Mar 17th, 2006 at 9:31am

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If there's one thing I've learned about things like this (UK threatening to pull out of JSF) it's that these conflicts are almost always political in nature, not technological.  In other words, the reasons given by both sides for the conflict are probably half truths and the real reason is unstated.  Perhaps one side is looking for more money from the other, perhaps there are some lobying interests, perhaps it's unrelated to JSF and more about beet farming subsedies or something stupid like that.
 
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Reply #35 - Mar 17th, 2006 at 10:20am

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If there's one thing I've learned about things like this (UK threatening to pull out of JSF) it's that these conflicts are almost always political in nature, not technological.  In other words, the reasons given by both sides for the conflict are probably half truths and the real reason is unstated.  Perhaps one side is looking for more money from the other, perhaps there are some lobying interests, perhaps it's unrelated to JSF and more about beet farming subsedies or something stupid like that.


Amen,  Wink type of post I would have made.
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Reply #36 - Mar 17th, 2006 at 10:21am

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If there's one thing I've learned about things like this (UK threatening to pull out of JSF) it's that these conflicts are almost always political in nature, not technological.  In other words, the reasons given by both sides for the conflict are probably half truths and the real reason is unstated.  Perhaps one side is looking for more money from the other, perhaps there are some lobying interests, perhaps it's unrelated to JSF and more about beet farming subsedies or something stupid like that.


I think this case is one where its completely clear. Large British companies an personnel have had major roles in the project from the start (the X-35's first hover was flown by a BAE Systems pilot). What the UK government was investing for was to get exactly the same aircraft that would be available to the US, with UK industry taking major roles...

What would be the point of that expenditure and effort if it turned out we were getting no more than a glorified "customer" version of the aircraft which we could have bought off the shelf.
 
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Reply #37 - Mar 17th, 2006 at 11:46am

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What it means Charlie is that once again our 'friend' has taken what they want and clearly don't give a **** about us. Nice huh? It isn't the first time and I'm sure it won't be the last. Alas we British expect everyone to stand by their word and play fair like we do..... when will we wake up?
 
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Reply #38 - Mar 17th, 2006 at 12:13pm

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What it means Charlie is that once again our 'friend' has taken what they want and clearly don't give a **** about us. Nice huh? It isn't the first time and I'm sure it won't be the last. Alas we British expect everyone to stand by their word and play fair like we do..... when will we wake up?


So true...  Smiley
 
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Reply #39 - Mar 17th, 2006 at 12:14pm

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Thankyou for handling that graciously sky.  On a thoroughly international forum like this, if you begin to say anything that even remotely sounds like it may be insulting to another major nation's military, it instantly turns into a **** storm.  Just keep that in mind Wink

I'm not "advertising" sports.  I'm showing team pride on a site that's about a lot more then just flight sim, as Craig said. Smiley
 
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Reply #40 - Mar 17th, 2006 at 4:14pm

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I think this case is one where its completely clear. Large British companies an personnel have had major roles in the project from the start (the X-35's first hover was flown by a BAE Systems pilot).


That's what they WANT you to think.  Put on your pointy tinfoil cap for a moment and allow it to shield out the government's thought control beams.  I've got one too and will put it on as well.

What if this whole thing is part of a larger political picture.  What if the UK and the US are involved in some relationship or issue bigger than the JSF.  What if the UK wants to influence that issue in its favor.  Why not use the JSF as leverage in that larger issue.  The argument seems perfectly sensible, doesn't it?  UK getting shafted and all?  Well, what if that wasn't the real motivation for the people making the complaint?

Trust me, the UK is still intertwined with the JSF.  I work for BAE SYSTEMS and we're going ahead like a freight train on the EW systems.  No sign of pulling out in sight.  The politicians will settle there differences and the UK will still buy the JSF.  Will they use Rolls engines?  Who knows.  Maybe they'll trade the Rolls engine for beet farming subsedies.
 
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Reply #41 - Mar 17th, 2006 at 4:55pm

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I doubt very much that the US government has any influence on British farming subsidies. That would be a matter for the EU. However, this could have something to do with it. http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/news/article.html?in_article_id=407244&in_page_id=2
 
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Reply #42 - Mar 18th, 2006 at 8:37am

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Will they use Rolls engines?  Who knows.


Probably not considering they cancelled its development contract in December... Wink
 
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Reply #43 - Mar 18th, 2006 at 9:14am

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I doubt very much that the US government has any influence on British farming subsidies. That would be a matter for the EU.


Beet farming subsadies was just a place holder for an un-known side issue.  The reason I think this isn't about JSF is that there are also rumors floating around inside the industry that the US wants to pull out of its contracts with UK owned contractors as well.  That would shut down my whole company.  This type of talk (UK pulling out of JSF, US shutting down UK contracts) is never just about military hardware.  There's something going on behind the scenes and both sides are using the defense industry as leverage in some larger dispute.
 
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Reply #44 - Mar 18th, 2006 at 9:20am

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 That would shut down my whole company.


I take it you mean that as in a BAES owned company, not BAES in total... Wink
 
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