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San Francisco rejects USS Iowa (Read 66 times)
Dec 20
th
, 2005 at 11:54am
dcunning30
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Kinda old story but new to me.
City of San Francisco board of supervisors reject allowing the USS Iowa to berth at Fisherman's Warf and become a floating museum as a protest to the Iraq war and the military's position on gays.
Opinions?
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/08/20/D8C3PH0G0.html
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Reply #1 -
Dec 20
th
, 2005 at 12:10pm
Felix/FFDS
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I think that Stockton CA should have it, over, for example, Sacramento, CA
Then again, I think the state of Iowa should raise the money and bring it to their state....
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Reply #2 -
Dec 20
th
, 2005 at 12:12pm
dcunning30
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Then again, I think the state of Iowa should raise the money and bring it to their state....
Awesome! Actually, Iowa is bordered by the Missouri and Mississippi rivers, so it's definately doable. The Missouri river might not be deep enough but the Mississippi river definately is.
Also, Dianne Feinstein already raised the money to bring it to SF.
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Reply #3 -
Dec 20
th
, 2005 at 12:23pm
dcunning30
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...but my opinion of this is the history and value of the USS Iowa should be seperate from current political issues. It's a historical asset, nothing more nothing less.
...but it's their city and the supervisors are within their rights to reject it. Stockton's gain.
There will come the day when the Iraq war will end and the matter of gays in the military will no longer be devisive, and the Iowa will still be berthed in Stockton.
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Reply #4 -
Dec 20
th
, 2005 at 12:52pm
Felix/FFDS
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Quote:
...but my opinion of this is the history and value of the USS Iowa should be seperate from current political issues. It's a historical asset, nothing more nothing less.
...but it's their city and the supervisors are within their rights to reject it. Stockton's gain.
There will come the day when the Iraq war will end and the matter of gays in the military will no longer be devisive, and the Iowa will still be berthed in Stockton.
From a PR/tourism point of view, this appears a case of "cutting one's nose to spite one's face". But in the end, it'll be Stockton's gain.
Felix/
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Reply #5 -
Dec 20
th
, 2005 at 1:10pm
Hagar
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None of my business really but this does seem a petty decision. I don't know the USN's position regarding gay people but that obviously has little bearing on this as the regulations regarding gay members of the armed forces were different in most countries at the time she was decommissioned. Does the USS Iowa have any connection with San Francisco or even California? If not, I wonder why she was brought there in the first place.
In the end the decision is down to the city supervisors. That's their right as official representatives of the city no matter what I or anyone else thinks. One would have thought that this would have all been sorted out before the ship was towed there.
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Reply #6 -
Dec 20
th
, 2005 at 1:41pm
dcunning30
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The current matter re: gays in the military was a policy formulated during the Clinton administration called "don't ask - don't tell". What that means is gays can go about serving and not make their sexuality a known fact and all is well. And the military will not ask them to reveal their sexuality. But if they make their sexuality known, they may become involuntairily discharged.
Now, why San Fransisco? During WWII in the pacific, the point of departure from the US mainland was the San Fransisco bay area. Many a soldier, sailor, and marine have wistfully stared at the Golden Gate bridge as they sailed out to the war. For service personnel fighting in Europe and North Africa, their landmark that represented home was the Statue of Liberty, for those fighing in the pacific, it was the Golden Gate. SF has a special meaning to those who fought in the pacific. Heck, Admiral Chester Nimitz retired in Alameda Ca.
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Dec 20
th
, 2005 at 2:01pm
Hagar
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Now, why San Fransisco? During WWII in the pacific, the point of departure from the US mainland was the San Fransisco bay area. Many a soldier, sailor, and marine have wistfully stared at the Golden Gate bridge as they sailed out to the war. For service personnel fighting in Europe and North Africa, their landmark that represented home was the Statue of Liberty, for those fighing in the pacific, it was the Golden Gate. SF has a special meaning to those who fought in the pacific. Heck, Admiral Chester Nimitz retired in Alameda Ca.
In that case it would seem the ideal spot for a historic symbol in honour of all those brave men. To use this as an excuse for making a political point seems very misguided but I'm afraid that's the way things are heading these days. Not only in the US but also in my country where the situation is often far worse. Fortunately HMS Belfast still floats proudly in the River Thames between London Bridge & Tower Bridge & If anyone objects I don't think they would dare do anything about it. As a seafaring nation Britain has always been very proud of the Royal Navy.
http://hmsbelfast.iwm.org.uk/
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Reply #8 -
Dec 20
th
, 2005 at 2:24pm
ozzy72
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I can't agree with their position, I remember Fishermans Wharf as a friendly place and home of some seriously good grub! But I feel a boat named after a State should be based in the State it is named after....
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Reply #9 -
Dec 20
th
, 2005 at 2:56pm
Hagar
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I feel a boat named after a State should be based in the State it is named after....
On that basis HMS Belfast should be in Belfast where she was built. I suspect there might well be objections to that. To the best of my knowledge she was never based anywhere near London but I can think of worse locations.
I could be wrong but believe that some USN ships were named after places that are landlocked so that might be a tad difficult.
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Reply #10 -
Dec 20
th
, 2005 at 2:57pm
Fozzer
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Interesting...
I know nothing of the history, but from referring to my maps of the Bay area, (and the Flight Sim!), I would be amazed if it was possible to float a full sized Battleship under the various bridges and islands and creeks on the Sacramento River up as far as Sacramento or Stockton...!
Stockton and the surrounding area seems to lie on a flood plain, with very shallow water.
...but I could be wrong...!
Enlighten me...LOL...!
Paul...
...!
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Reply #11 -
Dec 20
th
, 2005 at 3:09pm
dcunning30
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The Missouri is berthed at Pearl Harbor. I can't think of a better location for it. Think of the symbolism....
There's the Arizona, representing the start of the war (for the US), and not very far away is the Missouri, representing the end of the war.
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Reply #12 -
Dec 20
th
, 2005 at 9:46pm
TacitBlue
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It would be almost impossible to put ships in all of the places they are named after. Iowa for example is land-locked. I doubt that the Mississippi is deep enough along its whole channel to get it all the way there.
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Reply #13 -
Dec 21
st
, 2005 at 4:09am
H
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Only two of the Pearl Harbor "battleship row" ships never returned to service (Arizona and Oklahoma -- although the latter, under tow for scrap, sank enroute in 1946). Three others were named for, basically, land-locked states: Tennessee, West Virginia and Nevada. The Tennessee and West Virginia were scrapped in 1959. The Nevada was left radioactive after atomic tests but still afloat; it was deliberately sunk in 1948 (the Pennsylvania survived Pearl Harbor, contributed more firepower against Japan than any other ship and also survived atomic blasts; radioactive, it was scuttled). So much for memorials.
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Reply #14 -
Dec 23
rd
, 2005 at 4:27am
denishc
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Quote:
Interesting...
I know nothing of the history, but from referring to my maps of the Bay area, (and the Flight Sim!), I would be amazed if it was possible to float a full sized Battleship under the various bridges and islands and creeks on the Sacramento River up as far as Sacramento or Stockton...!
Stockton and the surrounding area seems to lie on a flood plain, with very shallow water.
...but I could be wrong...!
Enlighten me...LOL...!
Paul...
...!
<typos>
Actually a ship as large as a Destroyer Escort can sail up the Sacrmento River almost to Sacramento itself! And the city of Stockton has quite a port facility going alread. But perhaps a better docking facility for the Iowa would be the old naval air station of the city of Alameda (my home town). NAS Alameda was once the home port for the aircraft carriers Enterprise and Carl Vincent(sp), before the station was de-activated. The deep water births and sea wall are still there and the base presently is the home for the carrier Hornet, which is now a floating museum.
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Reply #15 -
Dec 23
rd
, 2005 at 6:29am
Woodlouse2002
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Only two of the Pearl Harbor "battleship row" ships never returned to service (Arizona and Oklahoma -- although the latter, under tow for scrap, sank enroute in 1946). Three others were named for, basically, land-locked states: Tennessee, West Virginia and Nevada. The Tennessee and West Virginia were scrapped in 1959. The Nevada was left radioactive after atomic tests but still afloat; it was deliberately sunk in 1948 (the Pennsylvania survived Pearl Harbor, contributed more firepower against Japan than any other ship and also survived atomic blasts; radioactive, it was scuttled). So much for memorials.
The same happened with the entire Royal Navy bar the aforementioned HMS Belfast. As nice as it may be it really is not economically viable to have an entire fleet of battleships maintained just for a memorial and In my opinion your lucky to have as many as you do.
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Reply #16 -
Dec 24
th
, 2005 at 1:56am
H
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The same happened with the entire Royal Navy bar the aforementioned HMS Belfast. As nice as it may be it really is not economically viable to have an entire fleet of battleships maintained just for a memorial and In my opinion your lucky to have as many as you do.
Not as a fleet (which is the situation while they're "mothballed"); although some are federally maintained in 'memorial' service, most are sold off, whether for scrap or for other than 'federal' memorials.
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Reply #17 -
Dec 24
th
, 2005 at 12:27pm
myshelf
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i read the other day that the pocket battleship graff spee is to be salvaged. but it isn't so much for historical reasons but because it is a hazzard to shipping.
the reasonable man adjusts to his souroundings, while the unreasonable man insists on adjusting his souroundings to him.&&&&therefore all progress is due to the unreasonable man.
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