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05-05-05 tidbit (Read 1120 times)

Reply #15 - May 8^th, 2005 at 10:38am

Hype Ex Member

We really don't have a two party system. The two common parties seem to produce the only legitimate candidates, but you've always got the Green Party, etc....but they don't reflect a very large portion of society, which is why they're not as big. It's working exactly the way it's supposed to.

Plus, most Democrats aren't the Michael Moore/Ted Kennedy type...they're an entirely different breed of Democrat....

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Reply #16 - May 8^th, 2005 at 8:37pm

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I must point out that the Liberal Democrat party, the third choice, has never been in power. So we do effectively have just a two party system. Tongue

Tongue

Point of information, the Liberal Democrats of today trace their history to the Liberal Party founded about 150years ago. Although for (about) the past 80 years the PMs have been Conservatives or Labour, the Liberals were the party in power for most of the first 20 years of the 20th Century.

David Lloyd George was the PM during most of WW1.

Winston Churchill "broke ranks" and at an early point he was part of the Liberal Party.

Felix/FFDS

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Reply #17 - May 9^th, 2005 at 12:41am

denishc Offline
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It dawned on me that with a multi-party system its possible for a canditate can be elected without carring a majority of the populace. So perhaps a two party system isn't bad after all.

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Reply #18 - May 9^th, 2005 at 7:49am

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It dawned on me that with a multi-party system its possible for a canditate can be elected without carring a majority of the populace. So perhaps a two party system isn't bad after all.

Remember that the PM is not elected directly, but rather is an MP, elected in his "safe" constituency. In fact, Tony Blair was elected by 24,521 voters in his Sedgefield constituency.

In the parliamentary system, (please correct me if I'm wrong) I understand that if a party does NOT have the required majority, the head of state (in this case the Queen?) calls upon a respected MP to form a coalition government.

Also, the government can be "brought down" by a vote of no-confidence.

Felix/FFDS

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Reply #19 - May 9^th, 2005 at 1:18pm

Woodlouse2002 Offline
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Quote:

In the parliamentary system, (please correct me if I'm wrong) I understand that if a party does NOT have the required majority, the head of state (in this case the Queen?) calls upon a respected MP to form a coalition government.

In this case it would be a hung parliament and another general election would be held to clear it all up.

Quote:

It dawned on me that with a multi-party system its possible for a canditate can be elected without carring a majority of the populace. So perhaps a two party system isn't bad after all.

As for your comment denishc, forgive me for bringing this up, and even more so if it's wrong, but it's my belief that G.W. Bush in the 2000 election got 49% of the vote. Proving that no form of democracy is without fault. Wink

Wink

Woodlouse2002 PITA and BAR!!!!!!!!&&&&Our Sovereign Lord the King chargeth and commandeth all persons, being assembled, immediately to disperse themselves, and peaceably to depart to their habitations, or to their lawful business, upon the pains contained in the Act made in the first year of King George the First for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies. God Save the King.&&&&Viva la revolution!

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Reply #20 - May 9^th, 2005 at 1:20pm

Woodlouse2002 Offline
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Point of information, the Liberal Democrats of today trace their history to the Liberal Party founded about 150years ago. Although for (about) the past 80 years the PMs have been Conservatives or Labour, the Liberals were the party in power for most of the first 20 years of the 20th Century.

David Lloyd George was the PM during most of WW1.

Winston Churchill "broke ranks" and at an early point he was part of the Liberal Party.

They may trace their history back to that. But the Liberal party of old and the Liberal Democrat party are two very different animals. The Liberals have held power. The Liberal Democrats have not. Tongue

Tongue

Wink

Woodlouse2002 PITA and BAR!!!!!!!!&&&&Our Sovereign Lord the King chargeth and commandeth all persons, being assembled, immediately to disperse themselves, and peaceably to depart to their habitations, or to their lawful business, upon the pains contained in the Act made in the first year of King George the First for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies. God Save the King.&&&&Viva la revolution!

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Reply #21 - May 9^th, 2005 at 3:57pm

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But the Liberal party of old and the Liberal Democrat party are two very different animals.

The same could be said for "New Labour". It bears no resemblance to the traditional Labour party. Roll Eyes

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Reply #22 - May 9^th, 2005 at 4:22pm

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The same could be said for "New Labour". It bears no resemblance to the traditional Labour party. Roll Eyes

Roll Eyes

Of course, we could say the same thing here in the US ... Today's Republican and Democratic Parties barely, if at all, resemble their early 20th century incarnations...

Felix/FFDS

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Reply #23 - May 9^th, 2005 at 6:29pm

Craig. Offline
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dont worry my british friends, if things carry on as they are, it is very possible that the Lib dems could become the second party at the next election. With Brown being the most likely to run for labour they will win a 4th term no question, it would take something big to stop that. Its now a question, of the Tories sorting out their problems or they could very likely become the third party.

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Reply #24 - May 9^th, 2005 at 7:21pm

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dont worry my british friends, if things carry on as they are, it is very possible that the Lib dems could become the second party at the next election.

I'm not a political animal but I'd better keep my big trap firmly shut on what I think of that possibility. Shocked

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Reply #25 - May 9^th, 2005 at 8:49pm

Hype Ex Member

Quote:

As for your comment denishc, forgive me for bringing this up, and even more so if it's wrong, but it's my belief that G.W. Bush in the 2000 election got 49% of the vote. Proving that no form of democracy is without fault.

Liberals are a funny breed. No matter what the discussion, this comes up.

I needn't remind them that under the rules set forth by the electoral college system, which was established in Article II, Section 1 of the U.S. Constitution, the object of "the game" is to win 270 electoral votes. Nowhere does it ever say you need to win a majority.

But the US is a democracy, you ask? You'd be wrong again, my blue state donkey friend. The United States is not, nor has it ever been a democracy. It's a representative republic.

If you take a few moments to read an excellent document that I'll link to below, you'll understand WHY the electoral process was set up this way.

Until then, to those of you who think you were robbed in 2000, get yourself a little steno pad and write down your gripes while you watch the next installment of the Fahrenheit 911 trilogy.

Great link: http://www.fec.gov/pdf/eleccoll.pdf

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Reply #26 - May 9^th, 2005 at 10:07pm

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You'd be wrong again, my blue state donkey friend.

Woody is a Brit, not a "blue state donkey friend"....

BTW - Very nice link ...

Another intersting (for me) link is:

http://uselectionatlas.org/

Felix/FFDS

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Reply #27 - May 10^th, 2005 at 1:15am

denishc Offline
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Quote:

I needn't remind them that under the rules set forth by the electoral college system, which was established in Article II, Section 1 of the U.S. Constitution, the object of "the game" is to win 270 electoral votes. Nowhere does it ever say you need to win a majority.

True enough, here in the U.S. its not the number of popular votes you get, but the number of states you win. But am I mistaken to say that 270 electoral votes are two/thirds of the all electoral votes available and therefore a majority, of electoral votes that is?

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Reply #28 - May 10^th, 2005 at 5:27am

Hagar Offline
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Woody is a Brit, not a "blue state donkey friend"....

Quite right. Someone seems to be jumping to conclusions again. Not only that but calling someone a donkey doesn't sound too complimetary to me. Roll Eyes

Roll Eyes

I expect Woody's as confused about US politics as I am - & no doubt most Americans are with how it's done on this side of the old puddle. Heck, that even confuses me. I have no idea of his political leanings but blue is the colour of the Conservative party so a True Blue would be a die-hard Conservative. If he's anything like me he's wary of all politicians, no matter which side of the fence they happen to be on. They're all tarred with the same brush & we tend not to take our politics too seriously over here.

As a matter of interest, Blair's New Labour party was returned to power on something like 36% of the vote, meaning that 64% of people that actually voted didn't vote for New Labour.

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Reply #29 - May 10^th, 2005 at 7:00am

Felix/FFDS Offline
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Quite right. Someone seems to be jumping to conclusions again. Not only that but calling someone a donkey doesn't sound too complimetary to me. Roll Eyes

Roll Eyes

.

Traditionally, the Democratic Party in the US is characterized by a donkey symbol, with an elephant representing the Republican Party.

Felix/FFDS

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