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A380 Reversers (Read 673 times)
Apr 15th, 2005 at 6:26pm

French Connection   Ex Member
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Just read on A.net! Interesting to note, the A380 only has 2 Thrust Reversers...

Have a look at this picture:

Cheers,
Ashar
 
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Reply #1 - Apr 15th, 2005 at 6:28pm

Craig.   Offline
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yeah, the outboard engines are so close to the grass they had to do that to avoid them sucking anything in.
 
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Reply #2 - Apr 15th, 2005 at 6:32pm

French Connection   Ex Member
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I'm guessing you hate the A380 Roll Eyes

Chill, I don't mind anyone hating the A380.

Cheers,
Ashar Grin
 
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Reply #3 - Apr 15th, 2005 at 6:32pm

C   Offline
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Quote:
yeah, the outboard engines are so close to the grass they had to do that to avoid them sucking anything in.


You mean blowing anything out - the airflow out of the outboard engines thrust "reversers" would probably take half a second to dig a small hole in any unreiforced non metalled/solid surface if they overhang the runway/taxiway...
 
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Reply #4 - Apr 15th, 2005 at 6:35pm

French Connection   Ex Member
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I think the A380 is some kind of big a$$ show off kind of thingy. Airports around the world are in need of new terminals and newer things to accomodate the giant.

Cheers,
Ashar

 
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Reply #5 - Apr 15th, 2005 at 7:04pm

C   Offline
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Quote:
I think the A380 is some kind of big a$$ show off kind of thingy. Airports around the world are in need of new terminals and newer things to accomodate the giant.


It's a sensible aeroplane, and with Boeing not wanting to directly build a successor as large as the 747, Airbus saw a potential opportunity...
 
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Reply #6 - Apr 16th, 2005 at 2:38pm

Craig.   Offline
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Quote:
I'm guessing you hate the A380
I would love to know how you got that from my post. You asked a question i gave you the answer.

Quote:
You mean blowing anything out - the airflow out of the outboard engines thrust "reversers" would probably take half a second to dig a small hole in any unreiforced non metalled/solid surface if they overhang the runway/taxiway...

Both. Anything it couldn't suck up it would blow out. If that isnt confusing i dont know what is Roll Eyes ??? Smiley
 
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Reply #7 - Apr 16th, 2005 at 2:44pm

C   Offline
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Would have been a darn sight easier if they'd stayed with the priciples establised on the Comet, and tucked them up in the wing roots...
 
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Reply #8 - Apr 16th, 2005 at 6:22pm

Woodlouse2002   Offline
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They'd look a darn sight better too. Smiley
 

Woodlouse2002 PITA and BAR!!!!!!!!&&&&Our Sovereign Lord the King chargeth and commandeth all persons, being assembled, immediately to disperse themselves, and peaceably to depart to their habitations, or to their lawful business, upon the pains contained in the Act made in the first year of King George the First for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies. God Save the King.&&&&Viva la revolution!
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Reply #9 - Apr 16th, 2005 at 6:44pm

Hagar   Offline
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Poor old Craig. It seems you've been misunderstood again. Not sure what that was all about but never mind. Roll Eyes Wink

The Comet idea might look better but it has problems of its own. The engines are closer to the fuselage for a start which is both noisier & could affect the fuselage structure. I've seen photos of cabin windows shot-blasted by the reverse thrust before now. I think having the engines on pylons below the wings is easier to manufacture & also for engine maintenance/replacement. This is obviously the most economical way of doing it.

PS. It also leaves more room for fuel.
 

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Reply #10 - Apr 16th, 2005 at 6:47pm

Woodlouse2002   Offline
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Quote:
This is obviously the most economical way of doing it.

It was the American way of doing it. If the first Comet's didn't have their nasty habit of disintegrating at cruise altitude then the chances are the British design of having the engines in the wings would have caught on. Tongue
 

Woodlouse2002 PITA and BAR!!!!!!!!&&&&Our Sovereign Lord the King chargeth and commandeth all persons, being assembled, immediately to disperse themselves, and peaceably to depart to their habitations, or to their lawful business, upon the pains contained in the Act made in the first year of King George the First for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies. God Save the King.&&&&Viva la revolution!
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Reply #11 - Apr 16th, 2005 at 6:51pm

Hagar   Offline
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Not sure about that Woody. Having the engines mounted in the wings weakens the wing structure just where you don't need it so the centre section has to be stronger. This also makes it heavier & the engines take up space that can be used for fuel.
 

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Reply #12 - Apr 16th, 2005 at 7:03pm

C   Offline
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Quote:
It was the American way of doing it. If the first Comet's didn't have their nasty habit of disintegrating at cruise altitude then the chances are the British design of having the engines in the wings would have caught on. Tongue


It did with the Nimrod and the MRA4 (apparently they may now call it something other than "Nimrod")... Roll Eyes Tongue Grin
 
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Reply #13 - Apr 16th, 2005 at 7:08pm

Woodlouse2002   Offline
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That's cause the Nimrod was not so loosely based on the Comet. Grin
 

Woodlouse2002 PITA and BAR!!!!!!!!&&&&Our Sovereign Lord the King chargeth and commandeth all persons, being assembled, immediately to disperse themselves, and peaceably to depart to their habitations, or to their lawful business, upon the pains contained in the Act made in the first year of King George the First for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies. God Save the King.&&&&Viva la revolution!
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Reply #14 - Apr 16th, 2005 at 7:25pm

C   Offline
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Quote:
That's cause the Nimrod was not so loosely based on the Comet. Grin


Was it? I could never have guessed! Wink Grin
 
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Reply #15 - Apr 17th, 2005 at 4:32am

Craig.   Offline
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Quote:
Poor old Craig. It seems you've been misunderstood again. Not sure what that was all about but never mind
LOL. It happens, alot Roll Eyes Grin
I dont hate the A380, but we all know my feelings on Airbus Lips Sealed

Quote:
That's cause the Nimrod was not so loosely based on the Comet.
Shocked Shocked nooooooo waaaayy,  Shocked Shocked Grin
 
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Reply #16 - Apr 17th, 2005 at 4:57am

French Connection   Ex Member
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Looking thorugh Google for A380, something interesting popped up...See for your self:

...
Tongue Tongue

Strictly speaking however, it kind of does resemble the A380...

Cheers,
Ashar Grin Grin
 
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Reply #17 - Apr 17th, 2005 at 7:06am

Vic   Offline
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Quote:
It was the American way of doing it. If the first Comet's didn't have their nasty habit of disintegrating at cruise altitude then the chances are the British design of having the engines in the wings would have caught on. Tongue


I think that the comets actually disintigrated because of the structure of fusulage, not the engine placement. The windows on the first comets were square and they were bolted into place (d'oh) like the DC-3 and the older prop planes. This would cause warping and this gave it it's habit of disintigrating. As we all know, a rectangular structure is one of the weakest, the strongest being a circle and then a triangle.
To prove my point - look at the Tupolev 104, 124. They had engines in the wing but had circular windows, and they never disintigrated. (The 104 was the second commercial jet after the comet).
The engines placed in the wings have a different problem - in the case of an engine fire, the wing has a habit of melting and the fire does a good job of spreading to the rest of the aircraft. I am not even going to start about what happens in the case of an engine explosion  Grin Fortunately, the latter never happened on a 104.

A380 Reversers:
Everyone here is correct in a way. As mentioned, engines 1 and 4 hang over the edge of the runway. The danger isn't with anything being SUCKED into the engine (if you think about, it has nothing to do with reversers, since ALL of the engines are at TO/GA thrust anyways) besides, engines can withstand grass and dirt being sucked into the engines. As someone already mentioned - The problem is when reverse thrust is activated, the the airflow from the engines goes downwards and it is pretty strong. This airflow can rip out clotches of dirt with grass, which are then THROWN at a very high velocity (by the airflow) toward the fusulage. They aren't really afraid of FOD to the engines, but damage to the body.
The only effect this will have on its landing performance is that it may not be able to use some of the earlier taxiway exits. To be certified, it has to stop on a dry runway WITHOUT the use of reversers. Besides, spoilers do a better job of stopping than you think.
Vic

 

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Reply #18 - Apr 17th, 2005 at 7:14am

Hagar   Offline
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Quote:
I think that the comets actually disintigrated because of the structure of fusulage, not the engine placement.

I don't think Woody was suggesting that. It's well-known what caused the problems with the Comet. Without these problems the Comet would have been a world-beater & it's quite possible other manufacturers would have followed suit. I think this is unlikely as later British airliners (including the HS Trident which was originally a DH design) had their engines mounted externally at the rear of the fuselage. The Vickers  VC10 is another example.
 

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Reply #19 - Apr 17th, 2005 at 7:50am

Vic   Offline
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Sorry for the misunderstanding.
It really is a pity also, I heard that DH used the square windows in part because it would give the passengers a better view!
Vic
 

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Reply #20 - Apr 17th, 2005 at 8:23am

Craig.   Offline
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It was inevitable engines became external. Just look at the size of them.
 
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Reply #21 - Apr 17th, 2005 at 8:52am

Vic   Offline
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Quote:
It was inevitable engines became external. Just look at the size of them.

True, although it would be entartaining to see a 777 with internals  Grin
 

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Reply #22 - Apr 17th, 2005 at 9:52am

Hagar   Offline
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Quote:
It was inevitable engines became external. Just look at the size of them.

You have a very good point there Craig. At the time the Comet & similar aircraft were designed, axial-flow gas turbines were thought the way to go. These were more powerful than the original centrifugal-flow gas turbines & their much smaller diameter is what allowed them to be mounted integrally in the wing roots. They also have a much smaller diameter than the far more economical & quieter turbofan engines that were later developed & in use for many years now. As you say, it wouldn't be practical to mount one of those huge engines in each wing root, never mind two.

Someone mentioned that the turbofan actually goes back to the idea of the original Whittle gas turbine so once again we came round in a big circle.
 

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Reply #23 - Apr 17th, 2005 at 4:24pm

Woodlouse2002   Offline
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Shocked Shocked nooooooo waaaayy,  Shocked Shocked Grin

It's true. Unbelievable, but true. Grin Shocked
 

Woodlouse2002 PITA and BAR!!!!!!!!&&&&Our Sovereign Lord the King chargeth and commandeth all persons, being assembled, immediately to disperse themselves, and peaceably to depart to their habitations, or to their lawful business, upon the pains contained in the Act made in the first year of King George the First for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies. God Save the King.&&&&Viva la revolution!
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Reply #24 - Apr 18th, 2005 at 2:42pm

C   Offline
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Quote:
The engines placed in the wings have a different problem - in the case of an engine fire, the wing has a habit of melting and the fire does a good job of spreading to the rest of the aircraft. I am not even going to start about what happens in the case of an engine explosion


Search google for XW666 - and see what you get - I haven't looked myself...
 
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Reply #25 - Apr 18th, 2005 at 2:45pm

C   Offline
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Quote:
Sorry for the misunderstanding.
It really is a pity also, I heard that DH used the square windows in part because it would give the passengers a better view!
Vic


I expect they used square windows as they were the norm. Incidentally I think that at the Comet crashes were caused by fatigue in the windows in the top of the cabin...
 
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Reply #26 - Apr 18th, 2005 at 6:53pm

Hagar   Offline
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Quote:
I expect they used square windows as they were the norm. Incidentally I think that at the Comet crashes were caused by fatigue in the windows in the top of the cabin...

From what I've read on the subject the big square (rectangular) windows were a feature to improve passenger appeal. This was insisted on by top management at DH, possibly the old man himself, despite warnings from engineers who happened to see what was going on. The Comet was designed & built in secrecy & many people commented on it when they first saw it. I don't think any other pressurised aircraft was ever designed like that, even before the results of the investigation after the fatal accidents were published. Any boiler engineer could have told them you don't have square openings on a pressurised chamber & it's difficult to know what they were thinking of. I also think a lot of the truth was covered up by the government of the time. The success of the aircraft had been regarded as a matter of national importance.

I can't quote any sources but this was always my understanding of this tragedy.
 

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