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The end of Warbirds? (Read 1058 times)
Apr 17th, 2005 at 9:57am

Wing Nut   Offline
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This can't be anything but bad.  Imagine all the vintage aircraft that are going to be grounded if this takes effect...  Sad

From the Premier Site's news section...

Quote:
AOPA urges FAA not to abandon "orphaned" aircraft

AOPA is warning that proposed changes to FAA airworthiness standards could make it virtually impossible to update or restore many older GA aircraft.

In comments filed this week in response to an FAA notice of proposed rulemaking (NPRM) on the Standard Certification of New Aircraft, AOPA points out that the proposed rule does not allow the remanufacture or alteration of older aircraft whose type certificate or supplemental type certificate is no longer supported by a manufacturer. Such aircraft are commonly referred to as "orphans."

"As the GA fleet ages, more and more of our aircraft are becoming dependent on alterations and restorations to keep them flying," said Luis Gutierrez, AOPA director of regulatory and certification policy. "This proposal would make such changes impossible for orphaned aircraft. So when original parts are no longer available, many classic airplanes will be grounded, even though they could be flown for years to come with appropriate modifications."

The proposed rule also would stop the restoration of many antique and military aircraft that are rebuilt from spare or surplus parts after having been declared destroyed or demolished. And it could make the purchase and maintenance of imported aircraft more expensive by requiring manufacturers who hold a type certificate to hold a production certificate as well.

AOPA is asking the FAA to retain the methods that have allowed the owners of orphaned aircraft to keep their airplanes flying safely in the past and to protect the restoration of aircraft that have been classified as demolished or destroyed. The association also is urging the FAA to allow imported aircraft kits and major assemblies to be put together without requiring a production certificate.

« Last Edit: Apr 17th, 2005 at 3:05pm by Wing Nut »  

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Reply #1 - Apr 17th, 2005 at 9:59am

Gunny04   Offline
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are they crazy? Man if that went through it'd be fought hard prolly....... Thats just not right I dont think! Cheers, Gunny
 

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Reply #2 - Apr 17th, 2005 at 10:13am

Hagar   Offline
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Quote:
older aircraft whose type certificate or supplemental type certificate is no longer supported by a manufacturer. Such aircraft are commonly referred to as "orphans."

I'm not up with the current CAA/JAA regulations on this but taken literally it could affect a lot of GA aircraft & airliners, never mind warbirds. I wonder if the DC-3 is still supported by the manufacturer. In the UK many of these aircraft operate under a "Permit to Fly" which is less restrictive than a full C of A. It can be used for private purposes & even display aircraft but you couldn't operate under this certification if you carry paying passengers. http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?categoryid=33&pagetype=65&applicationid=11...
 

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Reply #3 - Apr 17th, 2005 at 10:31am

Wing Nut   Offline
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I was thinking the same thing, except I was wondering about the 707 or the 727...
 

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Reply #4 - Apr 17th, 2005 at 11:45am

beaky   Offline
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These Byzantine regs. really tick me off. Any aircraft should simply be required to meet airworthiness standards. Period.I have a hard time believing that a part is more likely to cause an accident because it was removed in good condition from another aircraft that was subsequently destroyed. I understand the concern , but it's the wrong way to go about it.  Owners of older "orphan" birds already pay thru the nose for insurance, even though the accident stats really don't seem to indicate that aging airframes and engines are more dangerous than newer ones ...Roll Eyes
 

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Reply #5 - Apr 17th, 2005 at 12:33pm

ozzy72   Offline
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Sounds like the Federal A$$hole Authority are out to get people. How many people here can afford a brand new Cessna? Roll Eyes
 

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Reply #6 - Apr 17th, 2005 at 2:15pm

chomp_rock   Offline
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WTF?! That is crazy! That means DC9s, DC8s, DC3s, 707s, 727s, MD11s, MD/DC10s, DC8s and not to mention all warbirds would be grounded!
 

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Reply #7 - Apr 17th, 2005 at 3:09pm

Ivan   Offline
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Protectionism...

Protect your own industry (Cessna) by keeping the cheaper competition from getting a certificate that allows sensible operation

For example
AN-2 vs C208, An-2 is cheaper and can carry more.
Yak-18 and Yak-52 vs C172 and C182, Yak-18 seats 4 too in standard spec but gives aerobatic capabilities.

What this will do for Technoavia (they are building a redesigned Yak-18 as the SM-2000P and a 750HP turboprop version of it that is fully aerobatic certified) i don't know.

 

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Reply #8 - Apr 17th, 2005 at 10:48pm

OTTOL   Offline
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Not that big a' deal, for the the warbirds anyway. Certify as experimental ...........keep flying.
Most of the parts for the old warbirds have to be fabricated anyway. Other than parts support, what other  reason do you need to maintain standard certification?
 

.....so I loaded up the plane and moved to Middle-EEEE..........OIL..that is......
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Reply #9 - Apr 17th, 2005 at 11:24pm

TacitBlue   Offline
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It kinda sounds like the FAA is purposely trying to piss people off.  Angry
 

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Reply #10 - Apr 17th, 2005 at 11:53pm

Felix/FFDS   Offline
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Quote:
What this will do for Technoavia (they are building a redesigned Yak-18 as the SM-2000P and a 750HP turboprop version of it that is fully aerobatic certified) i don't know.



More sales - The redesigned Yak-18 is a NEW design/ production, not an "orphan".  Now, once Technoavia STOPS supporting what it made, then there's a problem.
 

Felix/FFDS...
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Reply #11 - Apr 18th, 2005 at 12:17am

SilverFox441   Offline
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Even GA types can be certified as Experimental...it just affects Fare-Paying Pax and insurance rates after all...besides allowing uncertified mechanics (like hobbyists) to work on the plane.
 

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Reply #12 - Apr 18th, 2005 at 11:17am

OTTOL   Offline
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Quote:
Even GA types can be certified as Experimental...it just affects Fare-Paying Pax and insurance rates after all...besides allowing uncertified mechanics (like hobbyists) to work on the plane.

That's where I was going. To me it makes more sense to certify as experimental. It would be much cheaper and actually prolong the life of a warbird.
As far as GA, I wasn't forgetting about them, just focusing on the key topic. But, while you're on the subject, unless you plan on keeping the airplane for life, recertifying your 172 or Cherokee as experimental would probably be a bad idea due to a much lower resale value.
When you get into the "big stuff", some of the airliner airframes can amass anywhere from 50-100,000 hrs in a few short years. It's probably safer and more cost effective that they are  forced to retire these planes.
 

.....so I loaded up the plane and moved to Middle-EEEE..........OIL..that is......
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