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FS Vs. Real Life (Read 761 times)
Mar 30th, 2005 at 10:34am
Mistral   Ex Member

 
I was just wondering how the Jets on FS compare to the ones in real life. If i could fly a 747 in FS would i be able to do so in real life (bar ATC). Just something i was wondering cause i found flying light aircraft in real life a whole different experience.
Any real pilots feel free to shed some light. Wink
 
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Reply #1 - Mar 30th, 2005 at 12:53pm

Woodlouse2002   Offline
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No you wouldn't. If you find light aircraft different enough think about how different the 747's going to be.
 

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Reply #2 - Mar 30th, 2005 at 2:55pm

beefhole   Offline
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No.  I'll tell ya, it's sooo much different in real life, even just GA.
 
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Reply #3 - Mar 30th, 2005 at 3:34pm
Mistral   Ex Member

 
Well thats put an end to my dreams Angry Grin

Can anyone just elaborate on what is actually so different, is it the flight dynamics, or the method of navigation etc.
 
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Reply #4 - Mar 30th, 2005 at 3:43pm

C   Offline
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Most of the time in real aircraft you're using visual cues which you cannot get in FS most of the time...
 
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Reply #5 - Mar 30th, 2005 at 4:13pm

Felix/FFDS   Offline
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Mistral - would you TRUST your airliner to someone like Charlie or myself who think that the epitome of flight is a Gladiator?

 

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Reply #6 - Mar 30th, 2005 at 4:46pm

Woodlouse2002   Offline
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Quote:
Mistral - would you TRUST your airliner to someone like Charlie or myself who think that the epitome of flight is a Gladiator?


I'd like to see you throttle your 747 down to a cruising speed of 200mph. Grin
 

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Reply #7 - Mar 30th, 2005 at 4:49pm

Craig.   Offline
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apart from the main buttons in flight sim, i would like to see anyone with no real knowledge even try to figure out what some of the key buttons do. think of it like trying to parrallel park an 18 wheeler when all you have driven is a car.
 
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Reply #8 - Mar 30th, 2005 at 5:20pm

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Hehe, the first time I went in the seat of a 737, I was overwhelmed!!  No I  dont think would not be able to operate one even if I was elite at FS.  Maybe do a few turns in the air, but other than that, no way.  Theres like hydraulics, pressurization, buncha boost pump buttons and switches, even the throttle quadrant scares me!  Plus the flight yoke is huge!  Even looking for the inverters and the avionics, whew....

Plus I think actually flying it is a whole different experience all together.  The first time I flew a cessna 172 I got a little choked at first myself hehe (actually flight simulator helped a lot)
 

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Reply #9 - Mar 30th, 2005 at 8:28pm

Saratoga   Offline
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I could take ya up in a 767, configure everything for you, and hand you the controls. If you had flown a realistic one, you could turn and climb/descend. You could even probably fly a halfway decent approach. But there are just so many things missing from the sim. You could fly it though, I would just have to work every switch and little gadget you have never heard of. Wink

I know a pilot for a major airline (won't mention it out of respect, but it is in business and starts with a D) who shuttled a 737 to the airplane graveyard and his copilot traded seats with a ridealong who flew in the sim. He said she could fly fine (this way back when 2000 was the best thing), albeit uncoordinated and not used to the controls (duh). She flew all the way 'til the approach and did some stuff with the flaps and gear, but he said he wouldn't trust her to crash land it even. Roll Eyes Wink
 

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Reply #10 - Mar 30th, 2005 at 8:58pm

chomp_rock   Offline
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Not another sim vs real life thread, I've had just about enough of these Roll Eyes

The simple answers:

FS isn't even close to real life and the average sim pilot could not land a 747 or any airliner for that matter without proper training.
 

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Reply #11 - Mar 30th, 2005 at 9:05pm

Nexus   Offline
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I could fly it by using the autopilot, but that's as far as I would go.
I'd never attempt of landing manually, as it would be too hard.

 
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Reply #12 - Mar 30th, 2005 at 9:24pm

Saratoga   Offline
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Could you Nexus? Sure the Cessna autopilot is a perfect recreation, but setting up my 767 to fly an autoland with all three autopilots is semi challenging. You find me an addon that has all three coordinated autopilots working together to complete a task, then I'll believe it. It's so much more complicated in reality.
 

Pilot for a major US airline certified in the: EMB-120, CRJ, 727, 737, 757, 767, and A-320 and military, T-38, C-130, C-141, and C-5 along with misc. other small airplanes. Any questions, I'm here for you.
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Reply #13 - Mar 30th, 2005 at 9:34pm

Felix/FFDS   Offline
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Saratoga - If you setup the autopilot and autoland, I'll fly it .. (until the autopilot cuts out, then I'll gladly give it back to you)
 

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Reply #14 - Mar 30th, 2005 at 11:12pm

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Quote:
Could you Nexus? Sure the Cessna autopilot is a perfect recreation, but setting up my 767 to fly an autoland with all three autopilots is semi challenging. You find me an addon that has all three coordinated autopilots working together to complete a task, then I'll believe it. It's so much more complicated in reality.


yeah, I managed that quite well in an A320 sim 4 years ago (time really flies  Sad ), so the 767 shouldn't be any more harder to execute a LAND 3, or should it?
Level-D sims 767 has all 3 autopilots modelled, and yes you must activate them all to be able to autoland (active fail safe mode)  Smiley
 
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Reply #15 - Mar 31st, 2005 at 4:33am

Hagar   Offline
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I think that most people with any interest in aviation have wondered at some time whether they could land an airliner if the crew were incapacitated. While most of my real-life experience is on light aircraft I think I could make a pretty good go of it - with some expert assistance on the ground. It might not be pretty to watch but they would stand more chance with me than a complete beginner with no knowledge of flying. However big & complex the aircraft is the basic principles remain the same.

I suspect the same goes for anyone used to the MS sims. While I've always thought they concentrate too much on the panel & instruments in MSFS this might not be such a bad thing. At least you would have some idea of how it all works, more knowledge than me as I've never used the autopilot in FS.

I sat in the right-hand seat of a Boeing 707 flight simulator during a demonstration "flight" many years ago. It had the full six-axis motion system & was one of the first examples with a computerised display projected onto a curved mirror surrounding the outside of the cockpit, very similar to the ones used today by most airlines. It had been built for an airline & was actually used for training their pilots before being dismantled & shipped off to wherever the airline was based, China if I remember correctly. Very realistic & quite unlike anything I've seen on the PC. Maybe it's different with some of these simpits.

PS. This was at Rediffusion Flight Simulation (Redifon) at Crawley near Gatwick Airport. Redifon was one of the pioneers of modern flight simulation & my brother was Shipping Manager with the company for many years. They had open days every year where employees & their friends & families could see & experience the latest developments. About the same time as my 707 "flight" they were also experimenting with ideas for the leisure market & the "Back to the Future" ride at Universal Studios in Orlando was one of their first contracts. This works on exactly the same principle as their flight simulators & is still one of the best rides I've ever been on.
 

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Reply #16 - Mar 31st, 2005 at 7:03am
Mistral   Ex Member

 
So it is the fact that the actual dials/gauges/buttons/gizmo's etc on the real aircraft that are the main difference different. If this is so why don't MS and other designers incorperate ALL details of the cockpit and make FS truly 'as real as it gets'??? Maybe they feel that then i wouldn't appeal to the mass markets and become to specialised???
 
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Reply #17 - Mar 31st, 2005 at 8:02am

Hagar   Offline
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Quote:
So it is the fact that the actual dials/gauges/buttons/gizmo's etc on the real aircraft that are the main difference different. If this is so why don't MS and other designers incorperate ALL details of the cockpit and make FS truly 'as real as it gets'??? Maybe they feel that then i wouldn't appeal to the mass markets and become to specialised???

It depends on which aircraft you're talking about. I've never flown a big airliner but most real flying in smaller types is not done continually looking at instruments. Unless the visibilty is bad enough that you need to rely on the instruments just to keep straight & level the pilot has his head up & looking outside, both to see where he's going & keeping a permanent lookout for other aircraft. This can be compared with driving a car. How often or how long do you spend looking down at your speedo or other warning gauges or even being aware that you're doing so? Apart from the occasional glance down at them you're looking at the world outside, otherwise you would soon hit something or somebody.

I realise that flying a large modern airliner is far more technical these days but this is the main problem I have with FS. However realistic they might make it visually it can never be like real flying or a proper flight simulator costing almost as much as the real aircraft. MSFS is still very useful as a training aid & has come a long way in the last 20 years. My brother is not really interested as he worked with the real thing for something like 25 years. When I showed him CFS2 he said; "That's where we (meaning Redifon) were about 30 years ago".
 

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Reply #18 - Mar 31st, 2005 at 8:58am

Felix/FFDS   Offline
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Quote:
So it is the fact that the actual dials/gauges/buttons/gizmo's etc on the real aircraft that are the main difference different. If this is so why don't MS and other designers incorperate ALL details of the cockpit and make FS truly 'as real as it gets'??? Maybe they feel that then i wouldn't appeal to the mass markets and become to specialised???


There's just so much "realism" you can design and build into a mass market US$50./  simulation.   FOr starters, practically NO simulator will effectively simulate the g-forces on your body, or the attack on your senses when the airplane goes through unnatural attitudes - a spin, roll, or one of those crazy Lomçevaks<sp?> ...

Sure, a panel/gauge builder *could* coneceivably come up with a massive everything-is-included panel/vc, but then , remember, you'd need a co-pilot to handle it all...

Also - a simulation CANNOT let you simulate what goes through your mind when you're at 50,000 feet, and all your engines conk out .... and you're in a glorified flying brick.
 

Felix/FFDS...
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Reply #19 - Mar 31st, 2005 at 10:01am
Mistral   Ex Member

 
Some fair points u two, but i still think they could make it so much better with just a little bit more work, i.e that fat panal i was talking about and so forth. But, at the same time, within the realms of reality i think flying is quite obviously not an experience that can be accuratly simulated for $50/£30.
 
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Reply #20 - Mar 31st, 2005 at 10:20am

Hagar   Offline
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I believe there are some extremely realistic panels, both freeware & payware, if you look around for them. I think the DVC is the way to go & it's quite possible FS2006 or a future version of FS will do away with the 2D panel completely, like CFS3.

After a lot of experimenting my Fox Four colleague Mike Eustace has produced what I think is the best possible compromise for a 2D panel. His latest panels feature Look Up & Look Down views which can be assigned to different keys & even spare buttons on your joystick. They're for CFS2 only & I haven't seen anything like it for any version of FS. http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2kwextras.htm
 

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Reply #21 - Mar 31st, 2005 at 1:09pm

C   Offline
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With the correct advice from the ground via radio, I reckon i'd give myself a sporting chance in some more advanced aircraft... Smiley
 
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Reply #22 - Mar 31st, 2005 at 2:44pm

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Quote:
With the correct advice from the ground via radio, I reckon i'd give myself a sporting chance in some more advanced aircraft... Smiley



ATC:  Charlie, PLEASE keep the screaming down!

Charlie:  (censored - even for SimV)

ATC:  <sigh>
 

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Reply #23 - Mar 31st, 2005 at 3:27pm

C   Offline
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Quote:
ATC:  Charlie, PLEASE keep the screaming down!

Charlie:  (censored - even for SimV)

ATC:  <sigh>


Lol! I'd hope to find a discreet frequency where I could talk to someone who had a scooby about the aircraft and its systems, and a copy of the aircrew manual nearby... Wink
 
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Reply #24 - Mar 31st, 2005 at 5:15pm

Hagar   Offline
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I want the chief engineer & chief pilot of the airline on the other end of that radio or I ain't playing. If Charlie's on board he can do it. I'm no hero & he's younger & better looking than me. He's also far more qualified for this sort of thing.
 

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Reply #25 - Mar 31st, 2005 at 5:17pm

Craig.   Offline
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Quote:
I want the chief engineer & chief pilot of the airline on the other end of that radio or I ain't playing. If Charlie's on board he can do it. I'm no hero & he's younger & better looking than me. He's also far more qualified for this sort of thing.

I'm assuming you mean the photo opportunity at the end of your heroic experience:)
 
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Reply #26 - Mar 31st, 2005 at 5:40pm

C   Offline
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Quote:
I want the chief engineer & chief pilot of the airline on the other end of that radio or I ain't playing.


That was my thinking... Someone who knows what they're talking about. Then I'd at least have a 5% chance of cobbling together some sort insrument/visual approach at a sensible speed. Oh, and a runway the width of Manston's would be good too...

Then again, I'd probably be in the other 95% and make a pig's ear of it...


Quote:
If Charlie's on board he can do it. I'm no hero & he's younger & better looking than me. He's also far more qualified for this sort of thing.


I'm not qualified at all! Grin Maybe for the photos... Wink

It'd make a good book though...
 
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Reply #27 - Mar 31st, 2005 at 5:50pm

Hagar   Offline
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It'd make a good book though...

I think you'll find it's already been done. Wink
 

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Reply #28 - Mar 31st, 2005 at 5:56pm

C   Offline
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I think you'll find it's already been done. Wink


Have you read "Talkdown" by Brian Lecomber?
 
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Reply #29 - Mar 31st, 2005 at 5:59pm

Hagar   Offline
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Have you read "Talkdown" by Brian Lecomber?

No. Sad to say I haven't. I was thinking of Airplane. Roll Eyes Grin
 

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Reply #30 - Apr 3rd, 2005 at 1:23pm

Saratoga   Offline
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Setting up a land 3 in the 767 is harder than a -320, but not by much. Obviously there are some major difference, speeds, flaps, stuff like that, and the weight.

I for one am strongly against Hagar on this one. The 2D panels I like a lot and hope they don't get rid of them anytime soon. I find no enjoyment from having to switch from 3D to 2D or pan down or zoom out incredible amounts so the world looks ridiculous just to check my radar altitude or something to that effect. I would much rather fly an approach, or any part of flight for that matter, from the 2D cockpit than from the DVC.
 

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