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A little bit of local history (Read 1454 times)
Dec 19th, 2004 at 7:31pm

Hagar   Offline
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Amazing what you see when you least expect it. I spotted this photo hanging in the bar while at a party at the local golf club last night. Having my trusty camera with me I took a quick shot of it. The Ju 87 had apparently made a forced landing on the golf course during the BoB. It doesn't look that badly damaged & is "guarded" by what looks like a platoon of the local "Dad's Army".

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The only information was the inscription:
GERMAN STUKA 87
16th Fairway
18th August 1940

I've heard plenty of stories about crashed aircraft around here in 1940 but I'd not heard about this one before. I had a punt round on Google & found this.
Quote:
Crashed German WW2 Plane

On 18 August 1940, during WW2, a German aircraft crashed on Ham Manor Golf Course to the west of Angmering village.

The aircraft, a Junkers Ju 87B Stuka, was from the Luftwaffe Unit: II Gruppe - Stukageschwader 77 - 5 Staffel. It bore the markings "Wk Nr. 5167" and codes "S2 & N".

The crew were Pilot Oberfeldwebel Kurt Schweinhardt, who was taken prisoner, and Wireless Operator/AG Oberfeldwebel Willi Geiger (69062/11), who died of his wounds.

Oberfeldwebel Willi Geiger was originally buried at Littlehampton Cemetery but moved c1965 to the Deutscher Soldatenfriedhof, the German Military Cemetery at Broadhurst Green on Cannock Chase, Staffordshire. His date of birth was 30 August 1914.  

Quote:
John Saunders, chairman of Littlehampton branch of the Royal Air Forces Association (RAFA), has vivid memories of August 18, 1940, known as the Hardest Day.

"It was a beautiful day, with not a cloud in the sky. I was with a friend, Jack Dixon, who lived next door to us in New Road, Littlehampton, and we were in his garden.

"I looked up and saw what looked like lots of little stars dropping out of the sky and said it would be funny if they were German aircraft.

"Then we went to another friend's across the road, and you could see the smoke rising from Ford airfield.

"I didn't feel afraid - I was only eight years old at the time and didn't understand what was happening - I had never seen anything like it before."

It was known as the hardest day because both sides committed more aircraft over the skies of southern England than on any other day.

The Fleet Air Arm Training School at Ford suffered extensive damage, loss of life and casualties. What John Saunders saw "dropping out of the sky" were 28 Stuka dive bombers, which blitzed the airfield.

The toll included 28 dead and 75 injured, 43 aircraft on the ground damaged or destroyed, and direct hits on the airfield's fuel stocks, two hangars and other buildings.

During the raid, three Stukas were shot down by Spitfires from 602 City of Glasgow Sqn, based at Westhampnett. One of the Stukas crash-landed on Ham Manor golf course. Within days, souvenir hunters had stripped it down to little more than a skeleton.
 

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Reply #1 - Dec 19th, 2004 at 10:56pm

denishc   Offline
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  History can be found all around us, we just have to look in the right places.  The local pub is a good place to start!
 
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Reply #2 - Dec 20th, 2004 at 5:39am

HawkerTempest5   Offline
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It seems a shame now that a seemingly almost intact JU-87 should be stripped down but it was a different time then and no one would have given a second thought to any future historical significance it may have had. Nice story Hagar old pal and a great pierce of detective work.
 

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Reply #3 - Dec 20th, 2004 at 9:16am
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Thanks Doug...wonderful to read unexpected stories like that Wink

Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug
 
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Reply #4 - Dec 20th, 2004 at 9:57am
Drug/Beer/German Smurf   Ex Member

 
Quote:
Within days, souvenir hunters had stripped it down to little more than a skeleton.


Monsters!  Cry

I'm off to the cemeraty, getting some bones as 'souvenirs'. Tongue
 
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Reply #5 - Dec 20th, 2004 at 2:16pm

Hagar   Offline
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Quote:
Monsters!  Cry

Settle down now Bjorn. It was the aircraft that was stripped down, not the occupants. Shocked Tongue
Sadly one of the crew did not survive but I'm sure they were well-treated despite doing their best to wipe out as many of us as possible. That's the strange thing about war but enough of that.

It does seem a shame that the aircraft was not salvaged but it would probably have been reduced to scrap. Material was in very short supply & for all I know some wrecks might have ended up as Spitfires. Wink

My first thought was that the local Dad's Army didn't do a very good job of guarding it. If the truth be known I suspect they were the main culprits, after the boffins at Farnborough had taken everything they wanted. I expect the golf club members were complaining about it blocking the 16th fairway anyway & would have been glad to see the back of it. The country might have been in immediate danger of invasion but nothing interferes with the important things in life. That would never do old boy. Shocked

I believe this was the last time the Ju 87 was used on the Western front. It was highly effective as this attack & the one that badly damaged the nearby radar station at Poling on the same day demonstrated but it was too vulnerable to the modern RAF fighters. After suffering heavy losses in a short time the Stuka was temporarily withdrawn from front-line service, although I believe it was later used in the East. Only a few days after the photo was taken the Luftwaffe changed tactics & the London Blitz started.

PS. I recall reading that the oxygen cylinders from the He 111 were in great demand for air bottles for RN frogmen at one time. We didn't have anything suitable or the ability to manufacture them. Not a lot of people know that. Wink
 

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Reply #6 - Dec 20th, 2004 at 2:27pm
Drug/Beer/German Smurf   Ex Member

 
Quote:
Settle down now Bjorn. It was the aircraft that was stripped down, not the occupants. Shocked Tongue


That's what I referred to...

Quote:
Sadly one of the crew did not survive but I'm sure they were well-treated despite doing their best to wipe out as many of us as possible.


Yep. Not as friendly as in the 1st WW, but still quite nice, like the story Galland-Bader.

Quote:
It was too vulnerable to RAF fighters & temporarily withdrawn from front line service although & believe it was later used in the East.


Ju-87G - opening russian tanks like cans...Grin

Quote:
PS. I recall reading that the oxygen cylinders from the He 111 were in great demand for air bottles for RN frogmen at one time. We didn't have anything suitable or the ability to manufacture them. Not a lot of people know that. Wink


"Made in Germany" - quality work since 1939. Grin
 
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Reply #7 - Dec 20th, 2004 at 2:31pm

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I'm sure if you looked you'd find most of that aircraft in the attics of sussex.
 

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Reply #8 - Dec 20th, 2004 at 6:18pm

Hagar   Offline
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I'm sure if you looked you'd find most of that aircraft in the attics of sussex.

You would be surprised at what you can find in the attics of Sussex. All sorts of useless junk that should have been dumped years ago. I don't dare look in mine. Shocked Cheesy
 

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Reply #9 - Dec 20th, 2004 at 6:22pm

ozzy72   Offline
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Pretty exciting stuff Doug, alas no-one downed a Spit round here (of course flying inferior machinery like the 109 didn't help Grin)

Mark Wink
 

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Reply #10 - Dec 20th, 2004 at 6:29pm

Hagar   Offline
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Quote:
Pretty exciting stuff Doug,

I thought so. Nobody else at the party seemed too interested. Roll Eyes Wink

Quote:
alas no-one downed a Spit round here (of course flying inferior machinery like the 109 didn't help Grin)

Mark Wink

The lack of Spitfires on the Eastern front might have had something to do with it. Cheesy
 

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Reply #11 - Dec 20th, 2004 at 6:39pm

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That is cool, its amazing what history you can find when you look. Theres a ton of history round this area dating back to the civil war i believe (or war of the roses, whichever i wasnt paying to close attention Undecided Lips Sealed
 
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Reply #12 - Dec 20th, 2004 at 6:53pm

Hagar   Offline
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Quote:
That is cool, its amazing what history you can find when you look. Theres a ton of history round this area dating back to the civil war i believe (or war of the roses, whichever i wasnt paying to close attention Undecided Lips Sealed

It would have been the Civil War around Birmingham which was on the Parliamentarian side & loyal to Oliver Cromwell. The War of the Roses was a series of skirmishes between Lancashire & Yorkshire. Red rose for King Henry & the 'Lancastrians' & White rose for the Duke of York & the 'Yorkists'. It lasted for something like 30 years. Sometimes I think they're still at it. LOL
 

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Reply #13 - Dec 20th, 2004 at 6:55pm

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LOL yes thats the one:) Thanks Doug, theres alot of old musket holes in the walls of the churches round here, and apparently the Kings wife or mistress or whomever stayed at a local pub, the building is still standing today. I will try to get some pictures the next time i am that way.
 
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Reply #14 - Dec 20th, 2004 at 7:00pm

Hagar   Offline
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I will try to get some pictures the next time i am that way.

Please do. My daughter lives quite close to Birmingham but I can't say I've ever been there myself. Warwick Castle is well worth a visit if you get the opportunity.
 

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Reply #15 - Dec 20th, 2004 at 7:02pm

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We actually went a few weeks back. Very expensive though, didnt help it was bloody freezing. I didnt know i was going so i didnt have my camera on me, however my mum wants to go so chances are we will be going back after christmas so i will get pleanty of shots when we do.
I actually hope we do as i didnt get to see it all, was a nice day out though..
 
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Reply #16 - Dec 20th, 2004 at 7:16pm

Hagar   Offline
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Of course there's a lot more history around Birmingham. Castle Bromwich, the famous Spitfire shadow factory for one. Ozzy's hero Alex Henshaw was chief pilot & general manager there for most of WWII. He once did a low-level display at zero feet down Birmingham main street & ended up inverted over the town hall (maybe it was city hall). Some people still talk about it & I wish I had a photo. Shocked Wink

I think it's all changed now but there is apparently some sort of memorial.
 

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Reply #17 - Dec 20th, 2004 at 7:21pm

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WOW, i had to do a quick look into that, and came up with this. The man was crazy:)
http://www.angelfire.com/sd2/spitfirefactory/man.htm
I am going to have to go hunting for this memorial after christmas (way too busy right now)
 
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Reply #18 - Dec 20th, 2004 at 7:27pm

Hagar   Offline
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If you're interested in reading a little more I can recommend Mr. Henshaw's "Sigh for a Merlin". Lots of amazing facts in there told first-hand by an amazing character. I picked up a 2nd-hand copy at Tangmere Museum for 20 pence. Wink
 

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Reply #19 - Dec 20th, 2004 at 7:35pm

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Thanks for the recomendation:)
 
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Reply #20 - Dec 20th, 2004 at 7:44pm

Hagar   Offline
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Oh, I just remembered, The memorial is outside a garage which is on or close to the site of the old factory main gate. I believe it's a BMW garage & they paid for the memorial. Ironic don't you think?

PS. Looks like a nice place for photos. http://www.btinternet.com/~jimperkins/page66.html

Here's the memorial.
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Reply #21 - Dec 21st, 2004 at 3:55am
Drug/Beer/German Smurf   Ex Member

 
Quote:
The lack of Spitfires on the Eastern front might have had something to do with it. Cheesy


The Russians hat Spits. And Hurris...for a short period of time. Arrival on the eastern front - first mission - written off, since badly damaged by german fighters.  Wink
 
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Reply #22 - Dec 21st, 2004 at 8:01am

Hagar   Offline
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I know that Spits were sent to Russia at terrible cost to the crews of the Murmansk convoys. Whether many were actually used in action is debatable. I've read that the Spit was not popular with Russian pilots & that most were used for home defence & never saw action. This was what the Spit was originally designed for & those sent to Russia would not have been the latest type or have the latest top secret equipment.

While on the subject I remember some years ago that several brand new Hurricanes were discovered on the dockside at Archangel, still in their crates. I'm not sure what happened to them.
 

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Reply #23 - Jan 1st, 2005 at 5:16am

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Quote:
While on the subject I remember some years ago that several brand new Hurricanes were discovered on the dockside at Archangel, still in their crates. I'm not sure what happened to them.


I imagine the UK Government could have easily got upwards of $US500,000 for each from enthusiasts (given that a "used" Spit or P51 goes for up to a million).

As for the JU87 in the golf course, I suppose there's a possibility that the pilot landed the aircraft with very little damage in order to get medical attention for his then mortally wounded comrade???? (In a Stuka, it would have taken him at least 3 days to get back to France  Grin)

Seriously, my first thought was that the 'Dads Army' crew didn't do a very good job of guarding it. As someone said, it was probably left unguarded after the Airforce got what it wanted (if anything) - How would the engine have gone in a Morris????  Cheesy

Interesting Pic and story, Hagar, my man!! (I can just make out the serial of 5167 on the tail plane, so the article about the "crashed" plane at the golf course is obviously about this one.

"Crashed"???? Doesn't look very crashed to me!! Doesn't even look like a forced landing (of course, engine trouble etc is not obvious on the outside....). As I said earlier, looks like it may have been a perfectly good and purposeful landing, for good reason.

"Crashed"???......It seems that News reporters were the same type of creature in 1940 as they are in 2005. Blind, deaf, dumb and very excitable!!!!  Grin Cheesy Wink
 

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Reply #24 - Jan 3rd, 2005 at 10:47am

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Of course there's a lot more history around Birmingham. Castle Bromwich, the famous Spitfire shadow factory for one.


...and Lancasters Wink. Apparently AH was quite adept at aerobatics in the Lanc...

Shame the airfield shares the same fate as many pre war andWWII British airfields (Gravesend, West Malling, Hatfield, Leavesden, Heston, Croydon, Portsmouth, Skellingthorpe and sadly most recently Hawkinge to name a few) and is now home to several hundred houses, a retail park and industrial estates.

I'm just glad that during the war we had the RAE and Flight at Collyweston (now part of RAF Wittering) testing captured aircraft - if they hadn't I dread to think how few would have survived...

Charlie
 
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