Simviation Forum - Should Fozzer install XP?

Reply #30 - Dec 3^rd, 2004 at 6:38pm

Fozzer Offline
Colonel
An elderly FS 2004 addict!
Hereford. England. EGBS.

Posts: 24861

Quote:

Fozzer, Place your XP disk into your PC with '98 running, (assuming Auto Run is enabled) a little menu will appear, offering you a clean install , or, the option of installing it alongside Win 98 - Result! all those gems will still shine.
All you need is either an empty partitioned space on your HD or, an empty physical HD to install it on.

Remember, '98 MUST stay on drive C:, and Bob will be your proverbial uncle. Wink

Really mate, its that simple. Grin

Hi Paul.

~~Unfortunately~~ fortunately both of my hard drives, C and D, have no partitions on them, and a clean install of Win XP would necessitate a Format of my C drive, resulting in loosing all my lovely programs.
It's too late to partition my hard drives at the moment.
...which is why I am waiting for a total failure of my C drive forcing me to install the operating system, (XP), again on a clean, (partitioned), C drive..!

...but I'm in no hurry at the present, and my Flight Sims FS 2002/2004 run lovely and smoothly.... 8)...!
...and my, (very), old Gunship/Longbow progs are happy with '98... Roll Eyes

..!

Cheers Paul.... Wink

...!

Paul....Me...

Dell Dimension 5000 BTX Tower. Win7 Home Edition, 32 Bit. Intel Pentium 4, dual 2.8 GHz. 2.5GB RAM, nVidia GF 9500GT 1GB. SATA 500GB + 80GB. Philips 17" LCD Monitor. Micronet ADSL Modem only. Saitek Cyborg Evo Force. FS 2004 + FSX. Briggs and Stratton Petrol Lawn Mower...Motor Bikes. Gas Cooker... and lots of musical instruments!.... ...!
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Reply #31 - Dec 4^th, 2004 at 8:21am

congo Offline
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Make BIOS your Friend
Australia

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This is funny!

I love XP myself. A HUGE improvement over '98 in so many ways.

It took me a VERY long time to tame it however. Now that I now what to do, and how to set it up the way I like it, it still takes me a few hours to get XP installed, even though the setup is over in about 25 minutes.

Automation is probably great for some folks, but I can't stand it in my OP SYS. It's turning off most of XP's auto features and removing security holes that takes me so long to set it up now.

I really couldn't care less about my rigs security except for the fact that I game online with a dialup connection, and any bandwidth usage other than what my games require seriously affects my gameplay and / or ping.

I found a website that offers a good guide to disabling a lot of XP's services that most people simply don't use.

http://www.blackviper.com/WinXP/servicecfg.htm

Also, Service Pack 2 should be downloaded and burnt on to disk BEFORE you install XP........ So you can install it immediately after setup finishes, then do your tweaking.

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=049C9DBE-3B8E-4F30-8245...

After you become familiar with XP, you might want to do some REALLY serious trimming, in which case this program (Nlite) becomes indispensible. It will cut all the crap from XP, add Service Pack 2, remove some inbuilt security risks and create an ISO file ready to burn your customised copy of Win XP!

Nlite requires Microsoft NetFramework to run, and then NetFramework can be uninstalled after you have created your new customised Win XP disk.

http://nuhi.msfn.org/

Hard drives are so cheap now Fozzer 'ol m8, you could just buy one to put XP on and play with it until you decide (realise) on it's advantages.

I never did like the XP style interface, and I have my custom XP installation looking just like a Win '98 PC anyway, with some of XP's nicer features blended in of course.

Wink

Cheers

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Reply #32 - Dec 4^th, 2004 at 8:49am

Hagar Offline
Colonel
My Spitfire Girl
Costa Geriatrica

Posts: 33159

Very interesting Congo. Thanks for the useful info & links.

Quote:

It took me a VERY long time to tame it however. Now that I now what to do, and how to set it up the way I like it, it still takes me a few hours to get XP installed, even though the setup is over in about 25 minutes.

Automation is probably great for some folks, but I can't stand it in my OP SYS. It's turning off most of XP's auto features and removing security holes that takes me so long to set it up now.

This is the very thing that puts me off it, apart from the extra cost & the fact that I doubt it's worth the trouble on my old machine. I'm already familiar with the Win95/98Hagar interface & have no wish to be forced into learning something completely different. Nor do I have the time or inclination to spend countless hours finding all the tweaks & downloading updates that might or might not mess everything up depending on whose advice I listen to. ???

When WinXP was first released it was promoted as "Windows for Idiots". While I might be an idiot I prefer to do things my way & don't wish my OS to do it for me or predict what I'm trying to do. I know these features can be disabled but anything that works in the same way as that stupid Office Assistant in M$ Office is enough to drive anyone right round the bend. Angry

I'm going to stab myself with a paper clip. Now buggar off..........! Angry

PS. Maybe I'm lucky but I've never suffered the continual crashes or blue screens of death so many people complain about with Win98/Me. If I'd known what I know now I wouldn't have updated from Win98 SE to WinMe anyway.

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Reply #33 - Dec 4^th, 2004 at 6:49pm

Craig. Offline
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Birmingham

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i personally loved windows 95 while it wasnt as stable as XP it still created less problems in the long run, plus it had so much more control and ease of use for me. Then again with a new computer comes a new operating system to suit it whether you like it or not.

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Reply #34 - Dec 4^th, 2004 at 7:20pm

Jared Offline
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I'd rather be flying...
Uniontown, Ohio

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Aye, with all of the "improvements" comes the need for a better computer and that better computer will never be the perfect candidate to run that OS because they cannot predict every situation... so here we all sit with problems here and there, but overall not too bad..

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Reply #35 - Dec 5^th, 2004 at 7:15am

congo Offline
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Make BIOS your Friend
Australia

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Posts: 3663

Maybe one day, if I see any interest in the subject, I could write a brief guide on how I "disable" WinXP. In the software forum of course! Wink

Actually, other than Service Pack 2, I have no XP updates installed. I have auto updates disabled of course, (they should NOT be set by default in my opinion!), and I've found that most updates simply don't need to be on my PC, which is basically just a simming and communications tool. Auto Updates probably do more damage than good on a system such as mine.

I also completely disable the WinXP Security Center and firewall system, it's just added system overhead with questionable effectiveness. I prefer to simply use a third party firewall (Zonealarm) because of it's simplicity and effectiveness, (after Zonealarm is suitably "disabled" itself! ..... Zonealarm, along with most software these days comes pre-configured with it's own website checking to see your configuration and update status. I simply use the firewall to block itself from it's own website, as even though the option is there to turn the auto updates off, it still secretly contacts the website, at least on the version I use! Grin

)

I've always chased performance for my simming and WinXP can, if de-configured Wink

, provide a performance software environment for our beloved simulators, and that's why I use it.

Good Landings

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Reply #36 - Dec 5^th, 2004 at 8:22am

Fozzer Offline
Colonel
An elderly FS 2004 addict!
Hereford. England. EGBS.

Posts: 24861

In times long, long ago, (Far, far away), I used to run all my programs in DOS, (remember that? Type everything in by hand....Disc Operating System)... 8)...!
A bit of a complicated pig to sort out, but fun when you got used to it. (You could delve deep into the computers memory, with an intricate knowledge of all its commands)... Shocked

...!
Then came Windows 95..Woo-Hoo...with GUI.."Graphical User Interface"*, fantastic multi-coloured Icons, drop down menu's, drag-and-drop programs, etc, all done with the aid of the mouse, etc...(All courtesy of Steve Jobs...Apple Mackintosh...)...Thank-you Steve...!
Next came Windows '98....nice improvements.
Windows '98 up grade to Second Edition. A few extras and slight improvements. Reasonably stable.... Grin

...!

Windows 2000, ME, etc....don't think I needed the "upgrade" at the time!... was there any improvement over '98SE... Roll Eyes

...?

Interestingly, most businesses, shops etc, still use either Win '98 or ME...(Have a peek on their monitors next time you visit them...)... 8)...!

Windows XP...do I really need it to run all my preferred lovely "old" programs?...(There's not a lot new "stuff" out there that I fancy at the moment)... Cry

...!

Windows XP "may" run FS 2004 more efficiently, (I have a copy of FS 2004), but as I am an enthusiastic user of FS 2002 Pro, Win '98 SE suits me just fine, and performs as well as I need.... Grin

...!
As some very knowledgeable Forum members have said before, "If it 'ain't broke, don't fix it"**... Wink

...!

Cheers all.... Grin

...!

Paul...A short history of "Windows"...LOL...!

*My Commodore Amiga 500/1200, and Atari 1024 computers used this system before Microsoft "Windows" was published.
Even my 1982 Sinclair Spectrum 48k computer used a simple version of it in some of their programs..!

How's that for "old"...LOL... Grin

...!

** Addendum: Just had a peek through all the various hardware/software probs on the Forum....I don't get any of those with my system below....and their drivers, (mostly "old" ones)...Tee-Hee... Grin

...!

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Reply #37 - Dec 5^th, 2004 at 10:18am

4_Series_Scania Offline
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He who laughs last, thinks
slowest.
Stoke on Trent England U.K.

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I'd do the following Foz, me old China.

Sit down after that no-doubt superb Sunday Dinner of yours, spend an hour or so cleaning up your D: drive.

I'd assume most of your software is installed to C: with '98, no problem.

In a nutshell, clean out D: Use your XP setup disk to install XP on the D: drive, Format it to NTFS and allow XP to install to that drive.

Why NTFS? well its FAR better than the FAT32 system '98 uses, also an NTFS formatted drive will be completely invisible to your '98 partition - effectively '98 will only see drive C: - thus reducing any chances of 98 interfering with XP. On the flip side, when using XP, you must ensure all software installs to D:, as XP will be able to see either drive as it can read both formats.

On re-boot, you'll be greeted by a nice choice of Win 98 or XP - in effect you have a dual boot system , its that simple! Lips Sealed

And you'll be in the best of both worlds, your current hardware will be considerably faster under the XP OS than '98 - you'll have the two to compare back to back! on my own system, I'd say the differance is about 30% faster under XP.

FS2002 and CFS1,2 and 3 run GREAT under XP

I've given up trying to get CFS3 to behave under '98!

I no longer use my dual boot setup, I've removed '98 completely as in the 12 months or so I've used XP , not once have I found the need to revert back to '98!

As you use older apps than me I'd guess, I see your reason for wanting to keep '98.

BTW, my XP is configured so it looks and behaves just as '98 did, the GUI for XP is a bit baffling for '98 veterans, once you revert XP to the "Classic" view, its remarkably similar to '98 yet so many worlds apart.

I'm sure I'm safe in saying, plenty of us will help in any way we can! - Guys???

Go on mate! Unlock all that potential ! Grin

I'll accept I'm wrong and leave you alone, once, you've installed XP and found it to run worse than '98, alas mate, that just isn't going to be the case. Wink

Paul, your XP curse! Cheesy

Posting drivel here since Jan 31st, 2002. - That long!

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Reply #38 - Dec 5^th, 2004 at 10:38am

Gixer Offline
Colonel
Lets go fly a kite!!

Posts: 1540

I use all the classic views too! I prefer it that way.

AMD64 3500+ @ 2200MHz 400FSB&&MSI K8N Neo 2 mobo nForce3 chipset&&1gig Corsair XMS PC3200 timings @ 10.2.2.2 &&XFX 6800 Ultra @ 450/1200&&80gig HDD&&Loadsa fans!!!

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Reply #39 - Dec 5^th, 2004 at 10:50am

Hagar Offline
Colonel
My Spitfire Girl
Costa Geriatrica

Posts: 33159

Very interesting Foz. Did you forget Windows 3.1?

Quote:

Windows 2000, ME, etc....don't think I needed the "upgrade" at the time!... was there any improvement over '98SE... Roll Eyes

...?

Not in my experience. I made a bad mistake updating to WinMe. Not that there's a lot wrong with it apart from the needless expense. And so it goes on. I wonder when they will bring out a new version of WinXP? They are currently beta testing a brand new version of WinXP Pro. More bleedin' expense. http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,117462,00.asp

Quote:

Interestingly, most businesses, shops etc, still use either Win '98 or ME...(Have a peek on their monitors next time you visit them...)... 8)...!

My local Inland Revenue office still uses Win95. Why would they need to update it for the use they put it to?

Quote:

I'll accept I'm wrong and leave you alone, once, you've installed XP and found it to run worse than '98, alas mate, that just isn't going to be the case.

Hi Scania. I realise that I'm putting off the inevitable. If I continue with this hobby much longer, which is by no means certain, I'll be forced to purchase a brand new PC with all the bells & whistles, including the dreaded WinXP. Until that happens, my old machine runs perfectly well on WinMe thanks very much. After tweaking it to my satisfaction over a long period of time it would be a complete waste of time & effort starting all over again. If I had a spare HD maybe I would try your dual-boot suggestion but, once again, this would be just more needless expense. I always seem to be paying out for something I'm told I need to run the latest software efficiently & I'm not made of money. If I had cash to spare a new video card would be top of the list.

This brings up another point. I understand that WinXP has to be registered with M$ before it can be used & is only allowed to be installed to one machine. Apparently the registration process reads details of your specific machine including serial numbers of your system components. Even if you reinstall it to the same machine over a certain number of times you have to contact M$ & get their permission. Now, supposing I installed it to my old machine & subsequently purchased a replacement. Would I be allowed to install & use it on the new one or do I have to fork out for yet another copy of WinXP? Roll Eyes

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Reply #40 - Dec 5^th, 2004 at 12:55pm

Jared Offline
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I'd rather be flying...
Uniontown, Ohio

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Wow Windows ME runs? I've heard nothing but troube with it..

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Reply #41 - Dec 5^th, 2004 at 1:11pm

Fozzer Offline
Colonel
An elderly FS 2004 addict!
Hereford. England. EGBS.

Posts: 24861

Quote:

Very interesting Foz. Did you forget Windows 3.1?

Hi Doug. I remember the reference to Windows 3.1, but never used it.
I made the gigantic leap from DOS to Windows '95... Grin

...!
LOL...!

Quote:

This brings up another point. I understand that WinXP has to be registered with M$ before it can be used & is only allowed to be installed to one machine. Apparently the registration process reads details of your specific machine including serial numbers of your system components. Even if you reinstall it to the same machine over a certain number of times you have to contact M$ & get their permission. Now, supposing I installed it to my old machine & subsequently purchased a replacement. Would I be allowed to install & use it on the new one or do I have to fork out for yet another copy of WinXP? Roll Eyes

Now this was a bit of a worry for me when I got my copy of Windows XP.... Shocked

....

....!

In the past I have always been able to make back-up copies of my '95, '98, and '98SE Original CD's. (They get a lot of use..."Please insert the Windows XX disk in your drive..." , etc, etc.
I can un-install and re-install my XX OP System as many times as I like, which I have, regularly over the years.. 8)...!

I gather Windows XP will not allow that; as Hagar says, Microsoft sends their Internet Police into your computer and ferret around to see what you are up to when you start "doing things?"... Roll Eyes

...!
I object to anyone wanting to know what I am up to in the privacy of my own home... Wink

...

....!
LOL...!

Cheers all...!

Paul.

P.S. Hi Paul : My D drive is crammed full of "Useful Stuff" as is my C drive....I can't bear to think of having to re-install all those programs again, many of them being back-up programs, too large to burn onto a blank CD... Roll Eyes

...!
The only other choice would be another spare HDD for Win XP...more bleedin' expense... Cry

...!
Do I reallyneed all this flippin' complication....life is much too short...and my blood pressure is under control at the moment Cry

.....!
LOL...!

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Reply #42 - Dec 5^th, 2004 at 1:30pm

eno Offline
Colonel
Why you shouldn't light
your farts!!
Derbyshire UK

Posts: 7802

Win XP does not need to be registered in fact Microsoft only checks for the validity of its software when service packs are installed. Even then if you get the service pack from a magazine cover disc the validity of your version isn't checked.

Major hardware changes will only require re-registration if you have to do any major updates afterwards . Most of the hype about registration was to put the casual software pirates off.

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Reply #43 - Dec 5^th, 2004 at 1:44pm

Hagar Offline
Colonel
My Spitfire Girl
Costa Geriatrica

Posts: 33159

Quote:

Hi Doug. I remember the reference to Windows 3.1, but never used it.
I made the gigantic leap from DOS to Windows '95... Grin

...!
LOL...!
...!

Hi Paul. That was quite a leap. Shocked

As I think I mentioned in an earlier reply, I'm a comparative beginner at this lark. My first 'puter came complete with Windows 3.1 installed. I don't know if there was ever a Windows 3.0. Undecided

Quote:

Wow Windows ME runs? I've heard nothing but troube with it..

Well Jared. I progressed (if that's the correct word) from Windows 3.1 through Win95, Win98 & finally WinMe soon after it was first released. (Wish I'd saved myself some hard-earned & hadn't bothered with WinMe but that's besides the point .) I can't say I ever had a problem with any of 'em. I never understood what all the complaining was about in the first place. ??? Roll Eyes

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Reply #44 - Dec 5^th, 2004 at 1:50pm

Hagar Offline
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My Spitfire Girl
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Posts: 33159

Quote:

Win XP does not need to be registered in fact Microsoft only checks for the validity of its software when service packs are installed. Even then if you get the service pack from a magazine cover disc the validity of your version isn't checked.

Major hardware changes will only require re-registration if you have to do any major updates afterwards . Most of the hype about registration was to put the casual software pirates off.

Hi Eno. If you have WinXP installed you obviously know more about it than me. If what you say is true what's all this about then? Talk about confusing. ???
http://www.infohq.com/Computer/windows-xp-registration.shtml
Quote:

So I made the leap and loaded Windows XP. I then decided to boot XP to see if it was operating correctly.

After going through the welcome screen I noticed a little exclamation sign in my system tray. I clicked on it and it informed me that I had 30 days to register Windows XP before the installation expired.

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