Does anybody know of anybody who (preferably still alive) could answer my questions on the 109?
I don't mean sum bowl cut silulator pilot who has never entered a realy aeroplane but a living veteran.
Any ideas? (I've found 5 Gunther Ralls in the Telefonbuch....5 letters..4 "get out of my house" international phone calls....)


A.

Try this website, mate.
http://www.luftwaffe-experten.com/

A great site with a short war bio on a number of the German Aces (virtually all of whom flew the 109). Select the "Experten" link.

I read one of the bios recently and the author (the website owner) credited the actual 'Experten' with being very nice and obliging in allowing him to ask him questions etc.

I just don't recall which 'Experten' it was, You'll have to have a look. But you could email the website owner and ask him for an email contact or ask him to do it for you. he seems like a really obliging bloke.

I'd hurry. He's pretty old...........

I had a little lookie-pooh.

Erich Rudorffer (222 Victories) is alive but doesn't discuss his Luftwaffe career.

Walter Schuck (206) is still alive but no mention of his helping with the website info.

Ernst-Wilhelm Reinert (174) still alive but ill, as of 2001. Again no mention of assiting with info.

Gunther Schack (174) alive and well but refuses to talk about his career. Sent an autographed picture to the author but declined to answer questions.

Thats the ones from the 'Day' Fighters. Maybe it's one from the 'Night' Fighters I recall???? 

I found that reading "I Flew for the Fuhrer" by Heinz Knoke gives a pretty good idea of what flying the Bf 109 was like. He flew all the basic variants in combat.

I'm not sure it's a good idea to phone or write to these veterans without going through a 3rd party. Some are happy to talk about their experiences while others would prefer to forget them.

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If I'm reading Andrew's topic correctly he's been going through the phone book trying to contact them. I'm not convinced this is a good idea.

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I don't think anyone who hasn't seen one realises quite how small the Bf 109 is. The tiny cockpit has one advantage - the pilot becomes part of the aeroplane. Most Spitfire pilots will tell you that it fitted like a glove. Control was more a question of thinking about it & the aircraft would do it. This must have been very handy in combat.

I'm not sure there are any winners in war. They were all brave young men doing their duty.

There's plenty of literature around these days where you can find almost anything you wish. If I had some idea of the information you want I could probably recommend something. The alternative is to contact a museum or warbird restorer who actually flies these aircraft. If you ask nicely it's possible they could answer your questions but they tend to be busy people. Unfortunately some of the most experienced & respected ones like Mark Hanna are no longer with us. He was sadly killed in a landing accident with a Buchon, the Spanish-built version of the Bf 109G, like many Luftwaffe pilots. I believe I'm correct in saying that more Bf 109 pilots were killed in take-off & landing accidents than in combat. These old warbirds can still bite.

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I think it's pretty safe to say that there are more Allied flyers around than German (or Japanese for that matter), simply because of the odds against their survival towards the end of the war (Although both would be extrememly old now,  if alive at all).

In both theatres, they were so outnumbered towards the end and in most instances (except for the Me262), they were up against superior machinery and seasoned pilots who had the luxury of leave and 'creature comforts' that just weren't available to the 'enemy' at that time. Not to mention the 'demoralising' effects of having the crud kicked out of you.

In a number of the Bio's on the page I referred to before, it is amazing how long these men (German Experten - I'm not sure about the Japanese situation) went, fighting day after day, flying 5, 6, or 8 missions a day, without any time off or even a day of rest. Some are said to have done it for literally 'years' - non-stop.

It's also mentioned, in a number of cases, that this could well be a contributing factor to their eventual demises (as discussed more recently in our 'Richtofen' thread).

The Americans (and the English to a degree - not quite sure) in the latter stages, had the luxury of days off, R & R, proper rations, fuel, spares etc. There were shortages or complete absence) of all these things in Germany during the last couple of years of the war (say......mid '43 onwards) and even in the earlier stages in the East. They had to defend every single day, and night.

Some did spend time at training facilities (but that can sometimes be more harrowing than fighting the enemy......lol ).

Added to this, the survival rate of Germans taken by the Soviets was not all that great either, so I imagine many were lost this way also. I know Hartmann spent 10 years and survived but he also admits 'being of assistance' to them and joining some 'Anti-Nazi' association that I don't quite understand much about, so he possibly survived, with better treatment, where some.... more ardent Nazi types may have perished.

It's no surprise to me that there is (or has always been) a shortage of German Fighter pilots to give account of their escapades. 

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It always puzzled me why they retained the side-hinged canopy on later models of the Bf 109. This made it impossible for the pilot to escape if the aircraft overturned on the ground.  If I remember correctly this was the most common cause of the casualties I mentioned. The Bf 109 (especially the later variants) was prone to overturn on take-off due to the amount of prop torque & narrow-tracked stalky undercarriage. (This was also a problem with the Spitfire but I believe to a lesser extent.) 2-seater trainer versions of operational fighters were a luxury in those days & the first experience rookie pilots had of powerful fighters was when they flew them solo after a quick ground briefing. You could compare it with a newly qualified learner driver being strapped into a Formula 1 car & being sent straight out on the race track.

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I don't see why it couldn't have been done, even with the original angular canopy. Sliding canopies have their own problems & jam easily if the rails get damaged or even slightly bent. Many BoB Hurricane & Spitfire pilots suffered terrible burns when their aircraft caught fire & their canopy jammed. An emergency canopy release system was developed to overcome this on later RAF types.

They made the best of what they had - and were very successful.
That's why I think that every 'pit that is bigger than the one from a 109 is a waste of space.


The "explosives" were used in the Do 335,together with ejector seats and with a high probability in the 262,too.

Because zer Jarman engineering ist der best in der west. Zo vart ist dun ist dun corvect.

What surprises me even more, is they actually decided to fit an 'improved' redesigned hood (the 'Galland'), but even then, didn't address the obvious shortcomings!!


Are there any figures at all, which would indicate, at least to a degree, how many pilots who were 'shot down' in the 109 survived as opposed to 190's being shot down and the pilot being able to bail?

Sort of an indication of how many lives were lost because of the diffuculty involved in exiting such a small cockpit with an inadequate canopy mechanism.  ???

I know there is one particular German pilot (he didn't fly the 109) that was responsible for destroying 500 Russian tanks and was shot down 30 times. Obviously, being responsible for 500 tanks it was probably  a P400 (with the cannon it would have been easier to do). This bloke would certainly have been peeing into the wind to survive 30 bailouts or forced landings in a 109!!  

Ah.... explosive charges..
They are always such a great idea but I've noticed someone always seems to inconvienently die when the are tested...it would have worked though, especially with the Germans...


A.

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Personally I don't see any difficulty. The standard canopy could easily be modified to lift above the level of the rear fuselage before sliding back. The radio aerial mast would have to be moved but this is no big problem. There were obviously reasons why they chose not to do it.

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Explosive bolts have been used successfully (& safely) for many years. They were certainly used on WWII aircraft.

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Probably as this was the easiest arrangement to allow decent canopy mouldings

I'm claustrophobic (only in situations when I know I can't get out).

If I became trapped in such a way, I'd be crazily clawing at the canopy, they'd have to cut me out or I'd do more damage than the Firemans tools and equipment...

Whats a P400?

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Hmmmmm.....
I would like to see large scale reproduction of the 109,
there is a place in Queensland who offers Spit kits but a 109 would be really great to see.

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Sorry people. Wires totally crossed. To little sleep and too much reading.

I've been reading about the exported P39's (that Hagar mentions) and I've decided, in my dreams, that they were an alternative to the JU87 - FOR THE GERMANS. Why I have decided this, I'll never know.

Thanks for bringing me out of my 'halucination'. 

To be honest, mate, I have no idea what I was thinking. I know the Germans had a few planes that had decent sized cannon.  ???

I simply was looking for an alternative to the JU87 as a Tank destroyer, as I didn't know what plane this bloke flew (just that it wasn't a 109), so I 'waxed lyrical' about what it could have been, and somehow the P400 got in there, 'cause I've been reading about it for the last few days, on and off.

Strange thing, the mind, especially when you have one like mine. Totally confused most of the time.  

With age comes wisdom! But that's all that comes, everything else goes!...........

If, for some reason, he has to be a German Me-109-pilot, then I can´t help you.

But if the pilot´s nationality is not significant, then I suggest you check the "virtualpilots.fi"-page and read the articles about mr. Kyösti Karhila. I don´t know how fluent your finnish is, but go ahead - they also have their articles translated in english.

Anyway, mr. Karhila did fly an Me-109 in the Continuation War we fought against the S*#"& Union yy. 1941-44, and he then went on to have a distinguished civil-aviation career with Finnair. And he is still alive and well.

On those "virtualpilots.fi"-pages you will find even more info about flying an Me-109 in combat, but most of the men who did it, have already joined The Shadow Squadron.

[quote author=JerryO  link=1098869990/30#42 date=1102807661]...we fought against the S*#"& Union yy. 1941-44...[/quote]

Ahahah...no such words for the USSR,please.  ;)