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A speed question... (Read 341 times)
Aug 26th, 2004 at 9:28pm

jrpilot   Offline
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hello,

I was just wondering what speeds aircrafts do wehn flying in for a landing....sounds wierd but hold on....for example when coming downwind on the approach leg ATC will tell the pilot to fly 180 knots....well when I am flying the only thing ATC tells me is what heading to go at...so my question is when an aircaft (commercial jet) is coming infor an approach what speeds will he go...for example...at 10,000 feet be at 250 knots....210 knots at what part of the flight?...180 knots at what part of the flight?...170 knots at what part of the flight...and 160 knots at what part of the flight...?

Thanks
 
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Reply #1 - Aug 26th, 2004 at 10:04pm

OTTOL   Offline
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A lot of it depends on the airspace and the airplane that you are flying.
I'll start with airspace; I know from experience, that when I fly into the New York metro area, to fly at 250kts(after I've descended through 10,000 ft)until the approach controller advises me otherwise. Usually by the time I have been vectored onto final, I've ALREADY been slowed to 170kts or less, by the controller, because I and am behind a daisychain of aircraft that are heading for the same airport.
Aircraft; on a rare occasion New York has a slow day and I can keep 250 all the way to the airport. I usually start slowing at 10miles, so that I can be established(gear down, flaps approach)by the time the glideslope has centered. This would STILL be considered on the "tight" side as far as speed goes and 12-15miles might be a more reasonable distance(depending on which aircraft you are flying).
Another factor is the direction you are flying. Smart Captains used to tell me "there's no use speeding away from the airport!"  What they were saying was; if you are on the downwind leg and have passed the airport, you should probably slow down. Why go fast and burn extra gas when you are heading away from the airport?
A good rule of thumb is to have the aircraft at or below flaps(1) speed(the speed at which you can add the first increment of flaps), when you are on final less than 15miles from the airport or have passed abeam the airport on the downwind.
 
.....so I loaded up the plane and moved to Middle-EEEE..........OIL..that is......
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Reply #2 - Aug 26th, 2004 at 10:08pm

OTTOL   Offline
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Quote:
......on a rare occasion New York has a slow day and I can keep 250 all the way to the airport. I usually start slowing at 10miles.......

This would only apply to Class B airspace(for those who follow the rules   Roll Eyes  8)  Lips Sealed ), otherwise, legally, you would have to be at 200kts or less within 10miles of the airport.
 
.....so I loaded up the plane and moved to Middle-EEEE..........OIL..that is......
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Reply #3 - Aug 26th, 2004 at 10:11pm

Nexus   Offline
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It depends. ATC will usually kindly ask you to maintain a selected airspeed until establised on the loc.
If NOT...well Imagine you're flying the PMDG 737 (which you are  Wink ) on the downwind leg, abeam the runway.

You will want to be at a speed where you can start adding flaps to help the aircraft SLOW down and COME down, 210kts is a good speed to fly at that point.

At DTW (Downwind termination waypoint), be at 200kts or less, from now on you will CONTROL the speed with the FLAPS.  Smiley

That's as hard as it gets junior, no science really

Forgot to add: An approach clearance will automaticly cancel any previous assigned speed restrictions  Smiley
 
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Reply #4 - Aug 26th, 2004 at 10:15pm

Nexus   Offline
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Quote:
This would only apply to Class B airspace(for those who follow the rules   Roll Eyes  8)  Lips Sealed ), otherwise, legally, you would have to be at 200kts or less within 10miles of the airport.


What if you're not BENEATH (ie "under the floor") class B airspace, does the 200kias rule still apply. I can find ya plenty of examples of hotshot  pilots flying the base leg at more than 200knots?
 
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Reply #5 - Aug 26th, 2004 at 10:45pm

jrpilot   Offline
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So what you are saying is that ATC will direct you to a speed...or you should be a good speed and like nexus said I am flying the PMDG 737..let me show you some pics. ....I beleave these aircraft are being told by ATC what speed to be flying...

this pilot is being told to fly 220 knots correct by ATC?
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/294126/L/



 
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Reply #6 - Aug 27th, 2004 at 11:58am

OTTOL   Offline
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Quote:
What if you're not BENEATH (ie "under the floor") class B airspace, does the 200kias rule still apply
what if you're in Class C or D airspace?(smaller airports)............. was the point that I was making Wink
Quote:
I can find ya plenty of examples of hotshot  pilots flying the base leg at more than 200knots?
Whelp!..............in the realworld, there are two kinds of commercial flying (with and without passengers).  From the moment that you begin commercial training in an airplane "smoothness" in your flying technique is stressed. Also, thinking ahead of the aircraft is a  necessary attribute.
I can hold 250kts all the way to  a 3mile base to final turn. On the turn to final I would load up the wing(steep bank) and bleed off the speed necessary to extend gear and flaps. But this type of flying would have my passengers "graying out" and there cheeks would be sagging from excessive Gforce!  Shocked
Quote:
So what you are saying is that ATC will direct you to a speed

ATC may assign a speed restriction, otherwise it's at the discretion of the pilot, who would in turn use common sense and judgement assuming the factors Nexus and I have discussed.
In the picture, the Autopilot is set to 220kts. This could be for either one of these reasons and not necessarily one OR the other.
« Last Edit: Aug 27th, 2004 at 6:41pm by OTTOL »  
.....so I loaded up the plane and moved to Middle-EEEE..........OIL..that is......
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