Simviation Forum - ATC.guidace for landing???

Jul 1^st, 2004 at 9:14pm

alrot Offline
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Perhaps this one the most silly question,but i heard(i don't think it's true)something about aproach and intruccion directly from the voice (ATC),can anyone with knowledge of fs9 if the program can do this?

Venezuela

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Reply #1 - Jul 2^nd, 2004 at 4:13am

MadDriver Offline
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Umm... if you fly IFR, then the controllor vectors you in.

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Reply #2 - Jul 2^nd, 2004 at 4:22am

ozzy72 Offline
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MadDriver is right, if you set the flight as IFR rather than VFR then ATC will get you lined up on the runway in a clean descent pattern. The ATC is one of the greatest improvements in FS9 over 2k2 I think

Ozzy

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Reply #3 - Jul 2^nd, 2004 at 6:36am

Sterk Offline
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May be I miss something, but lately I prefer not to use IFR when flying big jets.Why?

ATC puts you on ILS interception point too close to the airport.Example from my flight:

According to dispather command I turn to intercept ILS beam about 7 miles from the airport,then his command was:
"Hold 4000 Ft until established on the localizer"
When I established on the localizer it was about 5 miles from the runway and on 4000 still,while according to sim flying lessons you have to be on about 3500 feet 10 miles from the airport,then I receive landing clearance when I was about 1,5 miles from the airport.
So,result-in 80% cases when I fly IFR I need to declare missed approach.. ???.

This thing never happens if I fly VFR and waypoints using approach charts...

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Reply #4 - Jul 2^nd, 2004 at 8:35am

Nexus Offline
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Sterk, I find that ATC gives the final approach vectors a little too soon, so when you turn you have to
A) make a shallow turn which results in:
B) You end up some 5nm from the runway for the final

My advice is (and I've done this all the time), when ATC gives you the final approach clearance, don't commence the turn, but rather wait a while and perform a steeper turn (should not be a problem). Smaller turn radius will give you a longer final approach.
If you're high above the GS, a steep turn is an excellent way of losing altitude and keeping the airspeed aswell.

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Reply #5 - Jul 2^nd, 2004 at 8:44am

garymbuska Offline
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I hate to be the bearer of bad news. But ATC puts you where you should be to make a landing, if you are having trouble making a landing you are more than likely going to fast. I have noticed on visual approaches that ATC does sometimes put you a little close But it is was is called a short approach. It just takes a lot of skill to make them. I for one like the short approaches since it is some what of a challenge to land safely and not run out of runway. In the real world if you need to loose altitude fast you would go into a slip Which is a type of turn using opposite rudder from the turn. It is what you see fighters do when they attack from high altitude.
You just need a little practice and you will be making these landings easely. 8)

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Reply #6 - Jul 2^nd, 2004 at 12:12pm

Webb Ex Member
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Which is it, Goldilocks? Too soon, too late, or just right?

I'd say just right, except at KSFO where they have me descend way too late. But that's a vertical problem, not a horizontal one.

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Reply #7 - Jul 2^nd, 2004 at 1:22pm

FlyingFinn2 Offline
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When ATC tell you the final vectors, in a 777 my method is, put flaps in 2 or 5 at 180 kias(15% fuel) and when the localizer starts moving, i press APR switch and the plane will do a hard turn, and then, gear down, and flaps at 20-25. at 150-155 kias.. and then the Ils will descend automatically. Dont know if this is a correct precediment, but never had problems, and someone can tell me some tips, if this method is not correct.

Wink

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Reply #8 - Jul 2^nd, 2004 at 6:23pm

MadDriver Offline
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In the 737. I slow my speed down pretty early, during the decent. I don't wait until I turn onto final to slow the plane down.

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Reply #9 - Jul 2^nd, 2004 at 6:35pm

FlyingFinn2 Offline
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Quote:

In the 737. I slow my speed down pretty early, during the decent. I don't wait until I turn onto final to slow the plane down.

Yes, is a good option, i descend my plane at 210-220 kias, when the descend is done, i dont have to wait too much for slow the speed.

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Reply #10 - Jul 3^rd, 2004 at 1:28am

Silver1SWA Offline
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I abosolutely HATE ATCs vectoring to final. There is however a way to work around it, and for the most part, ATC is capable of allowing you to fly a STAR. If anyone is interested, say so and I will try my best to explain the process. It's a rather lengthy explanation, and I'm not even sure if it would be appropriate for this specific thread discussion.

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Reply #11 - Jul 3^rd, 2004 at 1:36pm

Sterk Offline
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1.I never use autopilot for approach and landing-because these are most fun part of the flight-why to use autopilot for that?

2.About steep and hard turns.May be you remember from real flights where you fly as a passenger-do pilots make steep turns and divings?I guess no,right?

And remember- you fly BIG passenger airliner-you have 200-300 souls behind you-do you really think they will love all your steep fighter-like turns and attack divings?

I repeat-a hate ATC approaches-it gives you vectors and landing clearance too late-I dont want to do steep turns and dive like mad-I fly big passenger jet and not F-16!

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Reply #12 - Jul 3^rd, 2004 at 2:07pm

Nexus Offline
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Sterk, a steep turn for a commercial jet is not the same a steep turn for a fighter jet Wink

Most airliners autoflight system won't allow steeper banks than 30 degrees.

However...steep turns are more common than you think, it's just that pilots are proffessionals and performs these manoevers without you even notice it.
just as an example: Some approaches to Heathrow calls for a good 150 degree turn (change in direction, not bank angle, lol) and those my friend can be quite steep - even in the 737's it's common to see them go into excessive banks (25-30 degrees) in autopilot mode..all this where your V/S indicator reads -1000ft and increasing Wink

And why not use the autopilot for landing...if the weather sucks and there is turbulence, I find it convenient to engage the approach mode, especially during online flights where you have to communicate with live ATC

« Last Edit: Jul 3^rd, 2004 at 10:29pm by Nexus »

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Reply #13 - Jul 3^rd, 2004 at 3:51pm

labu Offline
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Hong Kong

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yes~~ steep turn.. just what pilots always do when approach on Hong Kong Kai Tak International Airport..

and i found that i receive atc's landing clearance as soon as i load a saved flight in IFR. when u are approaching.. and the airport tower calls u to fly straight to xx runway. u pause the flight and save it.. then reload the saved flight by 'select a flight' in menu. the airport tower will give u landing clearance at once.. Shocked

air safety is no accident

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Reply #14 - Jul 3^rd, 2004 at 9:02pm

FlyingFinn2 Offline
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I found this photo:

http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=292553

See the comments at the down of the page.
Is for Intercept the ILS Rwy 25 in my House Barcelona. Tongue

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