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Graphics Questions... (Read 819 times)
Reply #15 - May 10th, 2004 at 1:20pm

Delta_   Offline
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Some bios's will disable the onboard graphics card automatically. 

There are 3 types of drivers for ATi cards:
Official Catalyst
DNA
Omega

Also there are different versions, the latest being 4.4. 

The Nvidia 6800 did improve Directx 9 performance, but in some directx 9 tests it was not rendering pictures very well, but i would put that down to beta drivers it is using right now.  The X800 actually broke the 3DMark03 world record recently, by getting just over 15k, and the 6800 touched 12k (both cards at stock speed).  You may need to upgrade your PSU for a 6800, also you will lose a PCI slot for it aswell.  Either one you choose you will be very happy with your choice.  Assuming you want to shell out lots of money for those top end cards.  If you look around at the FX and Radeon range now you will find the prices are lower than what they used to be because of the new cards that were released.

Also currently ATi cards are 4-5% cheaper right now, so the difference in price is minimal.
 

My system:Intel Q6600@3.6GHz, Corsair XMS2 4GB DDR2-6400 (4-4-4-12-1T) , Sapphire 7850 OC 2BG 920/5000, X-Fi Fatality, Corsair AX 750, 7 Pro x64
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Reply #16 - May 10th, 2004 at 4:28pm

bm_727   Offline
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Ok, so basically my price range is just over $110-120

My system specs in case u are wondering...
-Pentium 4 @2.6GHz
-512 DDR-RAM
-Winxp

I want a card that will have nice video and relatively nice screenshots too.

Is there a chart or something that compares ATI cards for price, VRAM, and other graphic card-related stats??

Thanks for being so patient! Grin
 

...&&[glow=green,2,300]I didn't lose my mind- I sold it on Ebay! [/glow]
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Reply #17 - May 10th, 2004 at 6:20pm

Delta_   Offline
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The best cards for that price range are the ATi Radeon 9600 (not se as this is slower), and the Nvidia FX5700 (not xt as this is slower)

http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/20031229/vga-charts-16.html
Prices change all the time so i would expect that the chart is out of date by a quite a significant amount.
 

My system:Intel Q6600@3.6GHz, Corsair XMS2 4GB DDR2-6400 (4-4-4-12-1T) , Sapphire 7850 OC 2BG 920/5000, X-Fi Fatality, Corsair AX 750, 7 Pro x64
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Reply #18 - May 11th, 2004 at 11:46am

congo   Offline
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bm,

Ummmm, we already answered those questions!  Tongue

Read my post above as regards to screenshots, and see the chart that was posted for performance stats.

See if you mainboard has an AGP slot for a graphics card.

Take your time and get a good card,  better to wait and save a little more than be disappointed and waste money on something not quite good enough.

vram is another subject only abstractly related to this thread.

If you mean the amount and type of ram onboard a video card, it's only important that you buy a high performance video card, the RAM on that card will be one of the reasons it IS a high performance card.

Often, it's the TYPE of ram on the video card that makes it fast, and not the AMOUNT of ram, Modern video cards use expensive and very fast DDR RAM on them. The speed of the RAM also depends on it's LATENCY, measured in nanoseconds. The LOWER the latency number of the RAM, the faster the RAM is!

A cheaper and worse performing video card within the same GPU specification, (model range) as an expensive, good performing one, will have the slower ram onboard, so avoid them.

P.S.

I JUST TWIGGED! You say your not worried about FPS, that you already get 50 or 60 FPS......... Grin

Well, That's your problem!    Wink  

You need to crank up the graphics on what you have now, bog those onboard graphics down to about 6 or 7 FPS with high settings as outlined in MY FIRST REPLY above, and I'll guarantee you'll get some nice screenshots!  Cheesy

You won't be able to fly though...........  Cry

Here is my DARK SECRET.....

When I fly, I use slightly degraded video settings to keep FPS above 20.

When I do a screenshot, I'm quite quick at changing all my settings to maximum, both in my driver settings and Sim settings. I take the shot and downgrade until I'm ready for the next shot.

I'm a perfectionist when it comes to screenshots, it takes me a long time to shoot a series of shots this way, but I'm proud of the results I get.

There is no way I could get shots like I do and fly at those settings, my FPS drops under 10 and is 4 to 6 at times at the screenshot setting!!!

Weather is what makes great graphics in FS2004. It's also what causes the greatest FPS loss.

I typically have 3 or 4 cloud layers and many other complex parameters. If In a rush, I click the preset "building storms".

Lighting is another FS2004 strongpoint, I use it extensively, rarely shooting when the sun is high. I max out my light settings (and everything else!).

I won't take a shot until I've sussed out the lighting for several minutes at least, from every angle; and if it isn't right, I work until it is, sometimes this takes over an hour per shot to get what I want.

I would love to have a card where I could just max it out and leave it, but I can't justify the $600 the card's cost here.  Angry

My video card is a GF4 TI4200, My rig was tested with a Radeon 9600XT as well, and the 9600XT didn't bog down as much with lot's of clouds antialiasing and the anisotropic filtering turned way up. Other than that, they are very close in performance.

The 9600XT is simply better when the load comes on. The older nVidia cards can't match it. Niether can the lower grade FX cards from nVidia. The 5600 pro and up should be close or better.

At any rate, there may be more to nice screenies than originally meets the eye; in my case, at least, a lot of effort and time goes into it.

I hope this wasn't too techy, but you'll have to learn if you want great graphics.

Cheers
« Last Edit: May 11th, 2004 at 12:50pm by congo »  

...Mainboard: Asus P5K-Premium, CPU=Intel E6850 @ x8x450fsb 3.6ghz, RAM: 4gb PC8500 Team Dark, Video: NV8800GT, HDD: 2x1Tb Samsung F3 RAID-0 + 1Tb F3, PSU: Antec 550 Basiq, OS: Win7x64, Display: 24" WS LCD
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Reply #19 - May 11th, 2004 at 1:22pm

Delta_   Offline
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Quote:
The 9600XT is simply better when the load comes on. The older nVidia cards can't match it. Niether can the lower grade FX cards from nVidia. The 5600 pro and up should be close or better.

They stopped making the 5600series quite a while ago, it is the 5700series that rivals the 9600series. 
9600=5700xt
9600pro=5700
9600xt=5700U

Obviously they are not exactly the same in all areas, like i mentioned previously Nvidia do better in OpenGL and ATi in Direct3D.  The discrepencies between the 2 are not massive, but it is more a choice of which games you play, Direct3D games or OpenGl games?  Then you will know your answer.
 

My system:Intel Q6600@3.6GHz, Corsair XMS2 4GB DDR2-6400 (4-4-4-12-1T) , Sapphire 7850 OC 2BG 920/5000, X-Fi Fatality, Corsair AX 750, 7 Pro x64
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Reply #20 - May 11th, 2004 at 5:03pm

bm_727   Offline
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Umm, I just realized that I don't have an AGP port Shocked
what do I do?? Shocked Embarrassed
 

...&&[glow=green,2,300]I didn't lose my mind- I sold it on Ebay! [/glow]
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Reply #21 - May 11th, 2004 at 5:12pm

bm   Offline
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I don't think you can do anything - my sympathy goes out to you  Cry

Was it a Dell Undecided?
 
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Reply #22 - May 11th, 2004 at 5:22pm

bm_727   Offline
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Quote:
Was it a Dell Undecided?

Dimension 2400 Cry

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! Angry Angry

Are there any PCI cards to accomodate AGP?  I'm guessing not, but...

Also, are there any okay PCI graphics cards?
 

...&&[glow=green,2,300]I didn't lose my mind- I sold it on Ebay! [/glow]
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Reply #23 - May 11th, 2004 at 6:12pm

Delta_   Offline
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The PCI Radeon 9200 and the PCI FX5200.  The 9200 being the best performance of the two, but lacks DX9 acceleration.  Whereas the FX5200 has DX9 acceleration.
 

My system:Intel Q6600@3.6GHz, Corsair XMS2 4GB DDR2-6400 (4-4-4-12-1T) , Sapphire 7850 OC 2BG 920/5000, X-Fi Fatality, Corsair AX 750, 7 Pro x64
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Reply #24 - May 11th, 2004 at 11:47pm

congo   Offline
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Sell the Dell.  Cry

PCI graphics cards are an option, but probably won't perform much, if any better than what you have now.

Go for the settings tweak above, also, go into your BIOS and allocate as much shared RAM to your onboard video as you can. (this will most likely be 64mb, but it may allow 128mb).

My freind has a GF4 MX440 PCI card he will sell you cheap if you really are going to buy one. It's new.

But, I would suggest spending the money on a new mainboard instead, so a graphics upgrade is possible in the future. (or get a new mainboard and a AGP card as well, keeping in mind that you may need a new case/PSU.).

Sadly, another Dell Dilemma.............
 

...Mainboard: Asus P5K-Premium, CPU=Intel E6850 @ x8x450fsb 3.6ghz, RAM: 4gb PC8500 Team Dark, Video: NV8800GT, HDD: 2x1Tb Samsung F3 RAID-0 + 1Tb F3, PSU: Antec 550 Basiq, OS: Win7x64, Display: 24" WS LCD
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Reply #25 - May 12th, 2004 at 7:28am

Gixer   Offline
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The ATI card that broke 15000 was highly overclocked though

Hi-D, you said

Quote:
The X800 actually broke the 3DMark03 world record recently, by getting just over 15k, and the 6800 touched 12k (both cards at stock speed).  


And it was an overclocked 800XT platinum edition card to.  Will be good to see how the Geforce 6800 Ultra Extreme scores against it when its released. This will be the Nvidia card that compares to the 800XT pltinum edition.

Site below lists info on how much they overclocked it.

http://www.megagames.com/news/html/hardware/aticlaims3dmark2003worldrecord.shtml

ATI do seem to be producing good cards though, I'm gettin more tempted to try one  Grin
 

AMD64 3500+ @ 2200MHz 400FSB&&MSI K8N Neo 2 mobo nForce3 chipset&&1gig Corsair XMS PC3200 timings @ 10.2.2.2 &&XFX 6800 Ultra @ 450/1200&&80gig HDD&&Loadsa fans!!!
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Reply #26 - May 12th, 2004 at 7:57am

Delta_   Offline
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Quite a nice oc aswell.  715 Core and 1278(effective) memory.  

The only down side to oc'ing the 6800 will be the increase in power consumption, which is already very high.  Also the increase in temperature.  The new ATi card runs very cool, due to the low-k technology and the 0.13micron.  The 6800 uses 0.13micron but lacks any kind of rival to low-k so they had to put big heatsinks on it to keep it cool.
I am really not sure what the new Nvidia card has over the ATi card right now, it may become more apparent as time passes, but right now i can't see anything.  We need to wait until we see more opengl performance results before we decide which performs better in that area.
 

My system:Intel Q6600@3.6GHz, Corsair XMS2 4GB DDR2-6400 (4-4-4-12-1T) , Sapphire 7850 OC 2BG 920/5000, X-Fi Fatality, Corsair AX 750, 7 Pro x64
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Reply #27 - May 12th, 2004 at 9:17am

Gixer   Offline
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U would think that someone would catch on here and make a card that is good at both openGL and direct3D!

Out of interest what does FS2004 utilise out of these? or does it use both. 

Yeah that o-clocking was quite impressive and so was the score!! I would be to scared to clock a card that just cost me that much money  Wink
 

AMD64 3500+ @ 2200MHz 400FSB&&MSI K8N Neo 2 mobo nForce3 chipset&&1gig Corsair XMS PC3200 timings @ 10.2.2.2 &&XFX 6800 Ultra @ 450/1200&&80gig HDD&&Loadsa fans!!!
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Reply #28 - May 12th, 2004 at 9:22am

Delta_   Offline
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FS2004 is Direct3D. In fact the whole FS range is in Direct3D.  No programs utilise both.  Most use Direct3D but quite a significant amount use OpenGL.
 

My system:Intel Q6600@3.6GHz, Corsair XMS2 4GB DDR2-6400 (4-4-4-12-1T) , Sapphire 7850 OC 2BG 920/5000, X-Fi Fatality, Corsair AX 750, 7 Pro x64
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Reply #29 - May 12th, 2004 at 3:38pm

bm_727   Offline
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Quote:
PCI graphics cards are an option, but probably won't perform much, if any better than what you have now.

Is this true for every card out there?

Also, what are the best cards for PCI which support DX9?
 

...&&[glow=green,2,300]I didn't lose my mind- I sold it on Ebay! [/glow]
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