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G-force in an airliner (Read 845 times)

Apr 9^th, 2004 at 11:56am

bm_727 Offline
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Connecticut, USA!

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I want to make my airline flights more realistic, and I was wondering two things-

1) Whats the maximum rate of climb/descent a pilot will make in normal cruising flight or during the traffic pattern at an airport?

2) What are the maximum degrees a pilot will bank the wings for a turn? (so the pax don't go falling into the aisles Wink

Wink

)

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Reply #1 - Apr 9^th, 2004 at 12:09pm

Felix/FFDS Offline
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Quote:

I want to make my airline flights more realistic, and I was wondering two things-

2) What are the maximum degrees a pilot will bank the wings for a turn? (so the pax don't go falling into the aisles Wink

Wink

)

I've been in a 727 banking steeply to circle the Popocatpl volcano in Mexico .. People were standing in the aisle, with no problem at all. Remember, when banking, or rolling, it isn't the angle, it's the g-force vectors being applied.

example <Insert request for Hagar's help here> a test pilot noted for rolling the Lancasters once did so with a mechanic standing behind him ... the mechanic lifted a few inches, but came back to a stand as the plane completed the roll. I believe that a good pilot has rolled the plane with an open cup of water and not spilled it all about..

Felix/FFDS

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Reply #2 - Apr 9^th, 2004 at 12:19pm

Hagar Offline
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Quote:

example <Insert request for Hagar's help here> a test pilot noted for rolling the Lancasters once did so with a mechanic standing behind him ... the mechanic lifted a few inches, but came back to a stand as the plane completed the roll.

This was the legendary Alex Henshaw & mentioned in his autobiography "Sigh for a Merlin". http://www.angelfire.com/sd2/spitfirefactory/man.htm

Quote:

I believe that a good pilot has rolled the plane with an open cup of water and not spilled it all about

I've seen Bob Hoover (another legendary pilot) pour a glass of iced tea (I think it was iced tea) while barrel-rolling a Rockwell Shrike Commander without spilling a drop.* This was on a 16mm (8mm? ) company promo film owned by George Miles. I'm not sure if my brother-in-law had it copied on to video tape.

*PS. Quote:

One particular maneuver demonstrated Hoover's superb pilot skills in both the Shrike and the Sabreliner, but it is only visible on film. At altitude, Hoover set a glass on top of the instrument panel and proceeded to pour iced tea into the glass from a pitcher in his right hand while using his left hand to completely roll the aircraft. Combining centrifugal force with smooth handling of the controls, he never spilled a drop of tea.

http://www.nasm.si.edu/research/aero/aircraft/rockwell_commander.htm

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Reply #3 - Apr 11^th, 2004 at 1:20am

BFMF Offline
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So you could have a 747 in a 60 degree bank and have passengers walking down the isles without any problems ??? Shocked

Shocked

I find that hard to believe

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Reply #4 - Apr 11^th, 2004 at 3:33am

Hagar Offline
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Quote:

So you could have a 747 in a 60 degree bank and have passengers walking down the isles without any problems ??? Shocked

Shocked

I find that hard to believe

Of course. Providing it was a positive G manoeuvre & the aircraft was in a rated turn - although I wouldn't expect it to be banked at anything like 60 degrees in normal flight. No airliner with passengers on board would normally be banked unless it was in a coordinated turn. If rough weather or negative G conditions are anticipated the seat belt lights would be switched on.

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Reply #5 - Apr 11^th, 2004 at 9:33pm

zcottovision Offline
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I thought the biggest bank angle would be about 45 degrees, at the MAX!

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Reply #6 - Apr 12^th, 2004 at 9:55am

Jared Offline
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yeppers, have seen the video of Bob Hoover completing the manuever...

don't hve it any more unfortunately...

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Reply #7 - Apr 13^th, 2004 at 5:08pm

bm_727 Offline
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Connecticut, USA!

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Quote:

I wouldn't expect it to be banked at anything like 60 degrees in normal flight.

Well, that's what I'm asking Wink

Wink

Normally, under good conditions, what would a full airliner be banked at?
Also, what about rate of climb/descent?? Is there a limit?

P.S.- Is that video online anywhere?

P.S.S.- Quote:

Hoover set a glass on top of the instrument panel and proceeded to pour iced tea into the glass

I hope he used a coaster! Angry

Angry

-bm

&&[glow=green,2,300]I didn't lose my mind- I sold it on Ebay! [/glow]

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Reply #8 - Apr 14^th, 2004 at 4:58am

Hagar Offline
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Quote:

Well, that's what I'm asking Wink

Wink

Normally, under good conditions, what would a full airliner be banked at?
Also, what about rate of climb/descent?? Is there a limit?

I don't know much about airliners. From my own experience as a passenger & photos I've seen of the famous checkerboard approach at Kai Tak even 15 degrees would be excessive. The angle of bank looks much steeper than it actually is.

Quote:

P.S.- Is that video online anywhere?

P.S.S.-
I hope he used a coaster! Angry

Angry

I haven't looked. It's a company promo film lasting about 20 minutes.

He didn't need a coaster. He never spilled a drop. It's interesting to see the constant flow of liquid running into the glass even when the aircraft is inverted.

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Reply #9 - Apr 14^th, 2004 at 10:41am

Jared Offline
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It was also pretty cool to see him perform at airshows...

No one quite like him...

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Reply #10 - Apr 14^th, 2004 at 11:32am

Hagar Offline
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Quote:

It was also pretty cool to see him perform at airshows...

No one quite like him...

An exceptional pilot by anyone's standards. Wish I could have been there.

I had a punt round for a clip of his party trick. No luck I'm afraid but I did find a few photos.

The one & only legendary Bob Hoover.

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Reply #11 - Apr 14^th, 2004 at 4:27pm

bm_727 Offline
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I would imagine that the Kaitak approach turn would be a tiny bit ( Wink

Wink

) steeper...
So probably the max would be about 15 degress?

Quote:

I hope he used a coaster! Angry

Angry

I was just kiddin' Grin

Grin

&&[glow=green,2,300]I didn't lose my mind- I sold it on Ebay! [/glow]

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Reply #12 - Apr 14^th, 2004 at 7:34pm

Hagar Offline
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Quote:

I would imagine that the Kaitak approach turn would be a tiny bit ( Wink

Wink

) steeper...
So probably the max would be about 15 degress?

Judge for yourself.

Maybe someone else can be more specific. I don't claim to know much about these heavy jobs.

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Reply #13 - Apr 15^th, 2004 at 1:33pm

Nexus Offline
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The max bank angle for the 737 autopilot is 30 degrees, and that's quite an angle. I think you'll have an aural "Bank angle" warning if you exceed 35 degrees. At those banks, you need very much stab trim in order to not "fall out of the sky"

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Reply #14 - Apr 15^th, 2004 at 3:10pm

bm_727 Offline
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Connecticut, USA!

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Quote:

I would imagine that the Kaitak approach turn would be a tiny bit ( Wink

Wink

) steeper...

What I meant was that the Kaitak turn would probably be a tiny bit steeper than *other* typical approaches... Wink

Wink

Thanks for the info Nexus! Grin

Grin

Now, what about the vertical speed thing?

&&[glow=green,2,300]I didn't lose my mind- I sold it on Ebay! [/glow]

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Reply #15 - Apr 15^th, 2004 at 5:19pm

Nexus Offline
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Quote:

What I meant was that the Kaitak turn would probably be a tiny bit steeper than *other* typical approaches... Wink

Wink

Thanks for the info Nexus! Grin

Grin

Now, what about the vertical speed thing?

Wow, that's a tough cookie. It all depends:
Aircraft gross weight. temperature, pressure altitude, engine settings.

A 737-600 would kick the A340's ass when it comes to climb rate. Twins are generally overpowered (if one engine fails)

But initial climb rates can range everything from 2500ft/min to 4000ft/min. It's impossible to give a general answer here

As for descents, the Boeing 737 can descend in many different ways:
Vertical speed mode: Select a given vertical speed and the aircraft will adjust power and pitch to maintain the selected VS

VNAV P(A)TH: The aircraft will track the vertical profile of your flightplan while maintaining either 290knots or M.78 (I think). Deviations of the vertical speed, but expect a descent between 1700 to 1500ft/min.

LVL CHG: Short for level change. The aircraft will descend with idle thrust to maintain the selected speed on the MCP (glareshield panel). Speed has authority here so the aircraft will use pitch commands to maintain the speed, this will off course also lead to deviations in vertical speed. Vertical flightplan profile is ignored.
Can also be used during the climb phase.

How's that for a short, direct answer Grin

Grin

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Reply #16 - Apr 15^th, 2004 at 5:36pm

bm_727 Offline
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Connecticut, USA!

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So basically what you're saying is that a pilot will generally descend or climb at about 2500->4000 fpm?

I'm just asking about what a pilot would normally climb/descend at to keep his pax comfortable Wink

Wink

I know that some people don't like it when the plane is pitched up at a 60 degree angle on take off Cheesy

Cheesy

...

&&[glow=green,2,300]I didn't lose my mind- I sold it on Ebay! [/glow]

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Reply #17 - Apr 15^th, 2004 at 5:43pm

Craig. Offline
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Birmingham

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Quote:

I know that some people don't like it when the plane is pitched up at a 60 degree angle on take off

Freaks:) Nothing better than a steep climb. And nothing beats a lightly loaded 757 for steep climbs:)

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Reply #18 - Apr 15^th, 2004 at 6:37pm

Nexus Offline
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Quote:

So basically what you're saying is that a pilot will generally descend or climb at about 2500->4000 fpm?

Yes, but not for the descent.
You can't descend too steep or else you'll pick up speed and won't be able to follow the profile of the flightplan by the time you need to reduce the speed to 250kts below 10.000ft.

The descents can be everything from 2000-1000ft when descending from cruise altitude. Hard to give you specific answers, sorry Embarrassed

Embarrassed

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Reply #19 - Apr 15^th, 2004 at 7:30pm

bm_727 Offline
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Connecticut, USA!

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Quote:

Hard to give you specific answers, sorry Embarrassed

Embarrassed

No problem, you answered my question... Wink

Wink

Thanks Nexus!! Grin

Grin

There's no need for barf bags on my flights anymore Grin

Grin

Grin

...

&&[glow=green,2,300]I didn't lose my mind- I sold it on Ebay! [/glow]

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Reply #20 - Apr 25^th, 2004 at 8:14am

Lux13 Offline
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Firenze

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Hi!
About the maximum variometric rate of climb/descent,in general it's (maximum) 2500 ft per minute.Becouse if you have planned well your Climb/descent,you don't need muche more.....
But during take off,after rotating,it is much more.About 3000 ft per min or also more.......it's just that one necessary to mantain tha take off safety speed (V2) untill the acceleration altitude (generally 1500 ft,or 3000 if there's a noise abatment procedure).
And the maximum bank angle is 15° untill the aircraft reach V-MAN speeds,and then 25° for all the flight time!!
Cheers.

Thank God for let me fly!

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