Simviation Forum - Fleet Air Arm

Reply #15 - Nov 24^th, 2003 at 10:32am

Wing Nut Offline
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Where do you guys come up with these nicknames!

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Reply #16 - Nov 24^th, 2003 at 10:46am

Hagar Offline
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Quote:

Now - is it verified that it was a Stringbag that disabled the Bismarck, or was it a Blackfish?

Enquiring minds want to know....

I have no idea. I think the more popular nickname for all Swordfish was Stringbag no matter where they were built. I've read various books & articles on the subject & the name Blackfish never cropped up. I'm not too sure the ordinary matelot or even the crews would worry too much about it. That's my story & I'm sticking to it. Tongue

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Reply #17 - Nov 24^th, 2003 at 10:54pm

Smoke2much Offline
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Quote:

Now - is it verified that it was a Stringbag that disabled the Bismarck, or was it a Blackfish?

Enquiring minds want to know....

I've had the privaledge of caring for one of the Swordfish crew's Navigators who (says he) was on that mission and was willing to talk about it. I can assure you that it was a "Stringbag" that dropped the fatal torpedo, but not my patients. His porpoised and sunk.

Will

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Reply #18 - Nov 25^th, 2003 at 3:33am

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'Porpoised?'

Here we go again...

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Reply #19 - Nov 25^th, 2003 at 5:29am

HawkerTempest5 Offline
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Quote:

'Porpoised?'

Here we go again...

Bounced up and down in the water in a manner resembling the swiming motion of a Dolphin Wink

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Reply #20 - Nov 25^th, 2003 at 5:50am

Polynomial Offline
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yea those avengers sure look like flying tanks!

i have great respect for the swordfish pilots, flying those wooden wonders in such arduos conditions and managing to do their job!

as for the US dive bombers and torpedo bombers i'd have to agree they were rather lame, that dauntless was far to slow to be effective and the avenger was like flying a tank. what other aircraft did the US operate as torpedo and dive bombers?

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Reply #21 - Nov 25^th, 2003 at 8:34am

Hagar Offline
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i have great respect for the swordfish pilots, flying those wooden wonders in such arduos conditions and managing to do their job!

Me too. I think the Swordfish was of all-metal construction with a fabric covering. It's a common fallacy that "fabric-covered" means wooden construction. The fabric covering itself was usually high quality Irish linen - not canvas as so many people seem to think.

PS. The "Wooden Wonder" was the nickname of the DH Mosquito which WAS mainly of wooden construction.

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Reply #22 - Nov 25^th, 2003 at 9:11am

Felix/FFDS Offline
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as for the US dive bombers and torpedo bombers i'd have to agree they were rather lame, that dauntless was far to slow to be effective and the avenger was like flying a tank. what other aircraft did the US operate as torpedo and dive bombers?

Yeah - the Dauntless sucked - can you imagine, they sunk only three of the best carriers of the IJN at Midway. Pure dumb luck.

At the beginning of the war, the US had the Dauntless (which served throughout the war) as it's dive bomber, and the obsolete TBD Devastator as its torpedo carrier. The sacrifice of the Devastatior squadrons at Midway was remarkable, and led to the fighter cover being caught low when the SBDs came in high.

The Avenger - TBF/TBM was barely being introduced at Midway (only about six were operational, of which most were shot down) - replaced the TBD as the torpedo and level bomber (it carried a bombsight).

As the war progressed, the SB2C Helldiver replaced the Dauntless as the Navy's standard dive bomber, and it terms of tonnage, sunk more than the Dauntless. If the SBD is underrated in public mind, the SB2C even more so. Radar equipped variants were used for night bombing off the USS Enterprise in the late stages of the war.

Felix/FFDS

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Reply #23 - Nov 25^th, 2003 at 5:07pm

Woodlouse2002 Offline
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Quote:

'Porpoised?'

Here we go again...

When in rough seas the pilots had to be careful to drop their kippers in the trough between two waves other wise it would leap out of the side of a wave and sink. This was knowen as "porpoising. Wink

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Reply #24 - Nov 25^th, 2003 at 5:11pm

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So they could only attack running parrellel to the waves? Or did they time it so it would land in the middle while flying perpindicular to it?

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Reply #25 - Nov 26^th, 2003 at 12:09pm

Woodlouse2002 Offline
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So they could only attack running parrellel to the waves? Or did they time it so it would land in the middle while flying perpindicular to it?

It depended on where the ship was. Wink

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Reply #26 - Nov 26^th, 2003 at 1:04pm

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The Squadron/Signal "Swordfish at War" book is fascinating reading (as are all of that series). It may not be THE definitive history/story of the Swordfish, but it does go into some detail of the airplane itself.

There are several photos of the torpedo "sight" - basically a graduated windage bar extending to the left and right of the pilot's view. Based on the everchanging distance to target, target's speed, airplane's (slow) speed and sea conditions, the pilot has to "lead" the target ship and release the torpedo. Too fast or too high and the torpedo porpoises, or just drops into the water.

THe Stringbag was later used as an attack airplane, with rockets, and in hunter-killer roles equipped with ASW radar.

Early on the Blitzkrieg through France/Low Countries, the RAF called upon the FAA for help, and Stringbagsserved as anti-tank, anti-gun dive bombers...

Oh yes, it also survived its replacement - the Albacore.

Felix/FFDS

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Reply #27 - Nov 26^th, 2003 at 1:22pm

Hagar Offline
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I can recommend this if you can find it. My copy was lost during various moves with a lot of treasured books. I must see if my local library have it. As I remember they also went on a night bombing mission deep inside Germany just to prove to the RAF they could do it. The old Stringbag could carry a surprisingly heavy payload.

Lamb, Charles. To War In A Stringbag
Quote:

This one rates near or at the top of ANY WWII aviation memoir list you care to dream up! Commander Lamb's account of flying the Swordfish with Britain's Fleet Air Arm is an absolute joy to read. So much action is crammed into this book's 364 pages it's impossible to do it justice. But um...here goes. Lamb is on board HMS Courageous when a German u-boat sends it to a watery grave. He's transferred to HMS Illustrious and is airborne when numerous Stuka dive bombers turn the carrier into a limping hulk of twisted metal. He is stationed to a secret base in Crete where he conducts anti-shipping attacks against the Italian Navy. He is assigned top secret clandestine operations dropping VIPS in Vichy-French controlled Algiers. He is captured, beaten, tortured, imprisoned, and ultimately freed in 1942 as a result of Operation Torch. He is assigned to the North Sea, he is transferred to the Pacific....and on and on it goes. Lamb served most of his tour with 815 and 830 Squadrons of the Fleet Air Arm. Lamb's account is extremely graphic but tempered by some great humour which he somehow manages to retain throughout his various trials. This may be the single best WWII memoir available....if you can find a copy definately pick it up!!

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