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Germany leads the way (Read 1013 times)
Nov 1
st
, 2003 at 12:30pm
ozzy72
Offline
Global Moderator
Pretty scary huh?
Madsville
Gender:
Posts: 37122
The innovative Germans have once again shown the rest of the world the way forward.
Women in Hamburg who want to shop without dragging along grumbling male partners can leave them at the nation's first kindergarten for men. This adult daycare centre has plenty of amenities to keep the big boys occupied.
The living-room-sized space at one end of the Nox bar in central Hamburg looks like it has been perfectly equipped as a children's daycare centre. There are comic books spread out on tables, comfortable couches, a remote-controlled car, plastic toys and even a playpen of sorts with a construction set. It is only when you catch a glance at the copies of Penthouse and Playboy scattered about that you realise this is not your average kids' area.
In fact, children aren't allowed here; women aren't, either. The Nox bar has set aside this room for men only. More precisely, for men who have no desire to tag along with their wives or girlfriends while they look for skirts, scarves and handbags in the designer boutiques.
Women wanting a few hours of Saturday shopping in peace can drop off their partners at the Männergarten, where for €10 (£7), the men get a meal, two beers and an afternoon of boys' games, cards, conversation and sports on TV.
"The women are issued a receipt for their partners when they drop them off and can pick them up again when they return it to us later," said Alexander Stein, the manager of the Nox bar and creator of the Männergarten.
He got the idea from a female customer who thought big boy daycare would be a good way to get rid of her husband while she combed the nearby stores. "She found it all too stressful and thought this might be a solution. Both were very happy with the way it turned out," he said.
Besides providing non-stop sports on TV, Stein has also arranged special presentations for the boys in his charge, [on subjects] such as home-improvement workshops and men's literature. Upcoming topics include whisky tasting, cigars and cocktail mixing.
"My wife loves to shop and I don't," said Günter Rudden, 59, whose wife dropped him off so she could enjoy lunch and a little shopping with a friend. "Why should I have to suffer while she looks at shoes? This is a very good alternative."
The camaraderie is what appeals to men who spend the afternoon here. The Männergarten offers the chance to engage in a little conversation and hang out with other guys. The name badges each man wears help break the ice.
"Last week, I spent a couple of hours talking with two interesting guys who were here from Wuppertal, which is about three hours away from here. I couldn't have done that if I'd stayed at home," said Holger Leez.
But for some men, it takes a while to get comfortable, according to Bianca, a waitress at the Nox bar. "Some guys look almost scared after their wives leave them here," she said. "We just kind of take their hands and assure them everything's going to be OK."
The intense interest in the Männergarten concept has taken the Nox bar completely by surprise. Mr Stein has been overwhelmed by calls from the media and says some of the Männergarten men have as well...
"Whether we keep it going depends on who comes when the buzz dies down," Mr Stein said. "Some of our regulars have put their head round the door and recoiled in horror."
But the buzz has infected bar owners in other German cities. According to the Nox website, Männergartens are opening up in Cologne, Munich and Berlin.
There are two types of aeroplane, Spitfires and everything else that wishes it was a Spitfire!
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Reply #1 -
Nov 1
st
, 2003 at 12:42pm
Iroquois
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Happy Halloween
Ontario Canada
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I heard about this on the news a while back. Man daycare.
Why doesn't the guy just stay home to begin with?
I only pretend to know what I'm talking about. Heck, that's what lawyers, car mechanics, and IT professionals do everyday.
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Reply #2 -
Nov 1
st
, 2003 at 12:51pm
Hagar
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Posts: 33159
LOL I can't see this idea catching on here. Just leave me in the nearest music/software/electronics/book shop or a pub & I'm happy for as long as you like.
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Reply #3 -
Nov 1
st
, 2003 at 12:58pm
BFMF
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Quote:
Why doesn't the guy just stay home to begin with?
My thoughts exactly
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Reply #4 -
Nov 1
st
, 2003 at 1:01pm
Hagar
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Quote:
Why doesn't the guy just stay home to begin with?
Quote:
My thoughts exactly
You guys are obviously unattached. That's not part of the deal.
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Reply #5 -
Nov 1
st
, 2003 at 1:14pm
Wing Nut
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I want to go! I want the RC car.
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Reply #6 -
Nov 1
st
, 2003 at 1:39pm
BFMF
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Quote:
You guys are obviously unattached. That's not part of the deal.
Part of what deal?
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Reply #7 -
Nov 1
st
, 2003 at 1:49pm
Hagar
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My Spitfire Girl
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Quote:
Part of what deal?
It's known as a family shopping trip. She goes - you go or she gets in a huff & won't speak to you (or do anything else) for a week. She might need your wallet (pocketbook) too.
Pippin. In my experience the big slob with the muscles always gets the car. Either that or he broke it before you turned up. Note that there is only one really good toy which everyone wants.
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Reply #8 -
Nov 1
st
, 2003 at 3:08pm
Fozzer
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Hereford. England. EGBS.
Posts: 24861
Quote:
It's known as a family shopping trip. She goes - you go or she gets in a huff & won't speak to you (or do anything else) for a week. She might need your wallet (pocketbook) too.
Distant memories...
...!
Hagar. You and I have obviously been there before, done it and never want to do it again...ever...
...!
Peace and tranquility reigneth... 8)...!
LOL...LOL...LOL...!
Cheers mate...
...!
Paul.
(England).
P.S. I love shopping, but it's always on MY terms...
...!
(On my own)....
...!
LOL...!
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Reply #9 -
Nov 1
st
, 2003 at 3:25pm
Hagar
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My Spitfire Girl
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Quote:
Distant memories...
...!
Hagar. You and I have obviously been there before, done it and never want to do it again...ever...
...!
Peace and tranquility reigneth... 8)...!
LOL...LOL...LOL...!
Cheers mate...
...!
Paul.
(England).
P.S. I love shopping, but it's always on MY terms...
...!
(On my own)....
...!
LOL...!
LOL Been there - got the T-shirt. Unlike some people around here I'm a quick learner & only did it the once. I know when I'm well off.
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Reply #10 -
Nov 1
st
, 2003 at 3:26pm
Sock
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Satan is cool.
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I wouldn't mind that at all! Drinks, food, reading material, and non-stop sports on the toop! And childerns toys! My kinda place.
Sock
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Reply #11 -
Nov 1
st
, 2003 at 3:37pm
Hagar
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Quote:
I wouldn't mind that at all! Drinks, food, reading material, and non-stop sports on the toop! And childerns toys! My kinda place.
Sock
Leave out the toys & it sounds like any pub in town. Think I prefer the pub. Probably much safer too. Squabbling over the toys is bound to cause a punch-up. I can see the headlines now. LOL
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Reply #12 -
Nov 1
st
, 2003 at 3:57pm
Fozzer
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Hereford. England. EGBS.
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Hagar...
Do you realise that you and
me
I, have been on this Forum, un-disturbed, since early this morning... 8)...!
No-one to say, "Right, after you have finished painting the small bedroom, putting that shelf up again, cleaning the toilet basin, (after you), I am going to select a new settee, carpet, and bathroom suite, (using your money), during which time I will leave you in the mens kindergarten at ASDA, to amuse your tiny self.."....
...!
Flippin' bleedin Norah....these youngsters don't know what's coming their way...
...!
LOL...LOL...LOL...!
Cheers mate...
...!
Paul.
(England).
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Reply #13 -
Nov 1
st
, 2003 at 4:33pm
Hagar
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Colonel
My Spitfire Girl
Costa Geriatrica
Posts: 33159
Quote:
Hagar...
Do you realise that you and
me
I, have been on this Forum, un-disturbed, since early this morning... 8)...!
Cheers mate...
...!
Paul.
(England).
Curses - I've been rumbled.........! Thinks........ how do I get out of this one? ??? Better make it good. Ah -
- it's all coming back to me now. I plead not guilty. I went into town early this morning cos my little car started playing up. I left it with my mechanic chappie to have a peek under the bonnet while I toddled along to my "greasy spoon" for a nice fry-up. (This was all carefully planned in advance.) After a relaxed breakfast & a good chat with my cronies I took a gentle stroll round town, picked up the car, arriving back home in time for a nice cuppa & a sandwich. Had a long chat with the neighbour first. Nobody to say "And what sort of time do you call this......?
"
Then I came here & checked out the threads. I have since had a nice stroll in the sunshine to visit Mr Patel in the local shop for sweeties & other necessities. Plenty of cuppas & nice meals in between then & now.
I shall probably do something similar tomorrow. The life of a contented batchelor. Oh - deep joy...........!
PS. This reminds me. I must fix that tap in the bathroom tomorrow - or some time next week. LOL
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Reply #14 -
Nov 1
st
, 2003 at 4:45pm
Iroquois
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Happy Halloween
Ontario Canada
Gender:
Posts: 3244
Quote:
It's known as a family shopping trip. She goes - you go or she gets in a huff & won't speak to you (or do anything else) for a week. She might need your wallet (pocketbook) too.
I guess my family is weired then. My mom preferes to go shopping by herself or with her friends. We usually only go shopping as a family at Christmas time.
I only pretend to know what I'm talking about. Heck, that's what lawyers, car mechanics, and IT professionals do everyday.
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Reply #15 -
Nov 1
st
, 2003 at 10:00pm
OTTOL
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Fintas, Kuwait (OKBK)
Gender:
Posts: 918
When he says SHE, he means, "significant other, ball-n-chain, holder of "the boys", better half
, til' death do us partner, sometimes known as WIFE!" I need to go back and read the small print on the marriage license, and recheck the audio, on the wedding video for subliminal messages. Because somewhere, there IS a (you must lovingly-willingly-loathingly accompany her, through sickness and through food court, to every single clothing store, and
ANY store which may posess the SACRED,
SALE
sign) clause, in there!
.....so I loaded up the plane and moved to Middle-EEEE..........OIL..that is......
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Reply #16 -
Nov 2
nd
, 2003 at 4:46am
Silent Exploder
Ex Member
*roflmao*
hey,this article gave me the first good laugh this morning...thanks,ozzy!
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Reply #17 -
Nov 2
nd
, 2003 at 4:47am
Smoke2much
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Colonel
The Unrepentant Heretic
Sittingbourne, Kent,
Posts: 3879
Bjorn, youir mission is to visit the Mannergarten and give us a full report.
Bitte
Will
Who switched the lights off? I can't see a thing....... Hold on, my eyes were closed. Oops, my bad...............&&
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Reply #18 -
Nov 2
nd
, 2003 at 4:57am
Silent Exploder
Ex Member
bursting into laughter the third time....
well,if you pay the ticket to munich ,cologne, berlin or hamburg...
but got to get a wife or girlfriend first.
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Reply #19 -
Nov 2
nd
, 2003 at 5:06am
Smoke2much
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Colonel
The Unrepentant Heretic
Sittingbourne, Kent,
Posts: 3879
IM me when you sort out the female company and we'll see what we can arrange LOL
Will
Who switched the lights off? I can't see a thing....... Hold on, my eyes were closed. Oops, my bad...............&&
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Reply #20 -
Nov 2
nd
, 2003 at 5:20am
Silent Exploder
Ex Member
TO ALL FEMALE USERS HERE:
wanna meet a nice guy and wanna go shopping in germany?
yeah?
right-o!
IM me!
now!
not later!
NOW!
(joke,by the way)
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Reply #21 -
Nov 2
nd
, 2003 at 5:20am
ozzy72
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Global Moderator
Pretty scary huh?
Madsville
Gender:
Posts: 37122
You guys really fluffed up. I'm married to a lovely lady who DOESN'T like shopping
When we do go shopping together we have a healthy balance of what we both like, bookshops 8)
And then afterwards we always go for cappucino and cakes at our favourite little cafe
Ozzy 8)
PS. What kind of girl would you like? I'll pop one in the post
There are two types of aeroplane, Spitfires and everything else that wishes it was a Spitfire!
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Reply #22 -
Nov 2
nd
, 2003 at 5:22am
Smoke2much
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Colonel
The Unrepentant Heretic
Sittingbourne, Kent,
Posts: 3879
Ohhh, good luck mate.
I find that Pub's work better myself......
Will
Who switched the lights off? I can't see a thing....... Hold on, my eyes were closed. Oops, my bad...............&&
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Reply #23 -
Nov 2
nd
, 2003 at 5:27am
Silent Exploder
Ex Member
oh ,well,gotta try it out.
p.s: hm...i think i have someone for accompanying me,but i still got to....umm..."convince" her that i'm the right guy.
omg...my english is not that good this morning.
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Reply #24 -
Nov 2
nd
, 2003 at 5:29am
Smoke2much
Offline
Colonel
The Unrepentant Heretic
Sittingbourne, Kent,
Posts: 3879
Please note that the offer to pay was in jest
Ask her out. Simple. Do it.
NOW
Will
Who switched the lights off? I can't see a thing....... Hold on, my eyes were closed. Oops, my bad...............&&
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Reply #25 -
Nov 2
nd
, 2003 at 5:32am
Silent Exploder
Ex Member
well...she's not online at the moment...
the next occasion would be on a concert next saturday...but still gotta wait for her "yes".
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Reply #26 -
Nov 2
nd
, 2003 at 5:54am
Fozzer
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Colonel
An elderly FS 2004 addict!
Hereford. England. EGBS.
Posts: 24861
Quote:
well...she's not online at the moment...
the next occasion would be on a concert next saturday...but still gotta wait for her "yes".
Silent...
...!
Before you embark upon this extremely dangerous route which will
distroy
affect your whole future, read back through this thread, and observe the musings from certain Members who have been there, and done it and have suffered the consequencies thereof....
...!
This is your last warning....
...!
LOL...LOL...LOL...!
Cheers mate...
...!
Paul.
(England).
P.S. but I bet you are going to ignore my advice....
...!
(Love blinds all)....
...!
...it's the connection between the eyes, the brain, and the little object in the trousers which is the cause of all the problems...
...
...
...!
LOL...LOL...LOL...!
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Reply #27 -
Nov 2
nd
, 2003 at 9:27am
Katahu
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Colonel
Gender:
Posts: 6920
A daycare for adults? Strange. ???
What? They have RC cars and Playb..err...uhhmm...I mean ESPN Magazines? Sweet.
AWW MAN!!! It's in Germany. That place is over 4,000 miles from here.
Oh well. At least I can travel for free in the USAF. Hopefully, they'll put me in Germany.
However, I would look real strange to the locals [walking into an adult daycare in UNIFORM.
]
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Reply #28 -
Nov 2
nd
, 2003 at 10:05am
Fozzer
Offline
Colonel
An elderly FS 2004 addict!
Hereford. England. EGBS.
Posts: 24861
Quote:
Hopefully, they'll put me in Germany.
However, I would look real strange to the locals [walking into an adult daycare in UNIFORM.
]
Hi Kat....
No problemo... 8)...!
Just pack a pointy hat with a feather in it, a pair of leather shorts, a pair of long wooly socks and buckled shoes, in your bag and you will mingle in with the locals.. 8)...!
..OH...
and dont forget your blown-up pigs bladder on a stick...
...and slap your thighs every now and again..
...!
...Sorted...
...!
Cheers mate...
...!
Paul.
(England).
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Reply #29 -
Nov 2
nd
, 2003 at 10:16am
Katahu
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Colonel
Gender:
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I bet you're telling me that so that you make me look rediculous. LOL
j/k
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Reply #30 -
Nov 2
nd
, 2003 at 10:48am
Fozzer
Offline
Colonel
An elderly FS 2004 addict!
Hereford. England. EGBS.
Posts: 24861
Quote:
I bet you're telling me that so that you make me look rediculous. LOL
j/k
Hi Kat...!
NAH...
...!
It's the National costume of Germany.... 8)
They wont let you in unless you are wearing it...
...!
...trust me...
...!
LOL...LOL...LOL..!
Cheers mate...
...!
Paul.
(England).
P.S. you have the "Klu Klux Clan", we have the "Morris Dancers".
The Morris Dancers are more terrifying...
...!
Believe me...
...!
LOL...LOL...LOL...!
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Reply #31 -
Nov 2
nd
, 2003 at 10:52am
BFMF
Offline
Colonel
Pacific Northwest
Gender:
Posts: 19820
LOL
This thread is cracking me up
I don't think I would go into a place like that. I would much rather find an internet cafe where I can log onto the forums
I'm gonna stick to Paul's advice and i'm gonna stay single as long as I can
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Reply #32 -
Nov 2
nd
, 2003 at 11:05am
Hagar
Offline
Colonel
My Spitfire Girl
Costa Geriatrica
Posts: 33159
Don't believe a word of it Katahu. I'm sure Exploder will confim that what Fozzer describes (Lederhosen) is the traditional dress of Bavaria, not the whole of Germany.
http://www.lederhosenmuseum.de/GBhomepage.htm
Unless they moved it without telling me Hamburg is nowhere near Bavaria.
Come to think of it that place the Beatles used to frequent might be more interesting. What was it called now? Ah - I know - The Reeperbahn........!
That sounds much more like my idea of a Männergarten. Maybe I'll come along & make sure you youngsters don't come to any harm.
PS. Morris Dancers are silly Englishmen with bells on their ankles who prance around drinking vast quantities of beer & whacking each other with big sticks. Nothing unusual really.
8)
PPS. Not much different to the "traditional" Bavarian dances put on for tourists when I visited Munich many years ago. Instead of wielding big sticks the dancers take great delight in slapping their own & each other's nether regions with their hands. They also drink vast quantities of bier. Strange lot us Europeans. LOL
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Reply #33 -
Nov 2
nd
, 2003 at 11:42am
Fozzer
Offline
Colonel
An elderly FS 2004 addict!
Hereford. England. EGBS.
Posts: 24861
Blimey Doug...
...!
Looking through that site* reminds me of why I insisted in getting de-mobbed from Germany in 1957.
Being chased by a "Lederhosen" clad person of dubious sex in Duisburg was always my worst nightmare....
...!
Au Weidersen all... 8)..!
Paul.
(A different Saxony)....
...!
..and they are always getting up early in the morning and pinching the best deck-chairs at all the holiday resorts.....
...!
P.S...*try this one...
http://www.fozzersgrubbyunderpants.com
Nah, nana, na, na...
...!
Dell Dimension 5000 BTX Tower. Win7 Home Edition, 32 Bit. Intel Pentium 4, dual 2.8 GHz. 2.5GB RAM, nVidia GF 9500GT 1GB. SATA 500GB + 80GB. Philips 17" LCD Monitor. Micronet ADSL Modem only. Saitek Cyborg Evo Force. FS 2004 + FSX. Briggs and Stratton Petrol Lawn Mower...Motor Bikes. Gas Cooker... and lots of musical instruments!.... ...!
Yamaha MO6,MM6,DX7,DX11,DX21,DX100,MK100,EMT10,PSR400,PSS780,Roland GW-8L v2,TR505,Casio MT-205,Korg CX3v2 dual manual,+ Leslie 760,M-Audio Prokeys88,KeyRig,Cubase,Keyfax4,Guitars,Orchestral,Baroque,Renaissance,Medieval Instruments.
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Reply #34 -
Nov 2
nd
, 2003 at 11:55am
Hagar
Offline
Colonel
My Spitfire Girl
Costa Geriatrica
Posts: 33159
Quote:
Being chased by a "Lederhosen" clad person of dubious sex in Duisburg was always my worst nightmare....
...!
ROFLMAO...........!
Now that's something I would pay good money to see. LOL
Quote:
..and they are always getting up early in the morning and pinching the best deck-chairs at all the holiday resorts.....
...!
Not likely to affect me. I steer clear of those sort of places. When was the last time you took a holiday? Me, I'm on permanent holiday.
Founder & Sole Member - Grumpy's Over the Hill Club for Veteran Virtual Aviators
Member of the
Fox Four Group
Need help? Try
Grumpy's Lair
My photo gallery
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Reply #35 -
Nov 2
nd
, 2003 at 12:24pm
Silent Exploder
Ex Member
oh,boys....you're too funny. and hagar is right. btw: i don't like bavarians,they're too....umm....let's say "strange". i prefer either saxonians or people from northern and eastern germany. they're much nicer and more interesting.
-update on the "female accompagnition" issue:
talked to "her" about the invitation to the concert this afternoon. well,it sounded like she doesn't want to go there with me.......damned!
what shall i do? ask her again? leave her alone? publish her photo in the forums? (a sort of revenge *evil grin*) being depressed and getting terribly drunk? cry?
got no luck with chicks...
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Reply #36 -
Nov 2
nd
, 2003 at 12:28pm
Sock
Offline
Colonel
Satan is cool.
Hudson, NY USA
Gender:
Posts: 2098
Quote:
got no luck with chicks...
Join the club.
Sock
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Reply #37 -
Nov 2
nd
, 2003 at 12:47pm
Fozzer
Offline
Colonel
An elderly FS 2004 addict!
Hereford. England. EGBS.
Posts: 24861
Quote:
oh,boys....you're too funny.
-update on the "female accompagnition" issue:
talked to "her" about the invitation to the concert this afternoon. well,it sounded like she doesn't want to go there with me.......damned!
what shall i do? ask her again? leave her alone? publish her photo in the forums? (a sort of revenge *evil grin*) being depressed and getting terribly drunk? cry?
got no luck with chicks...
Silent...
...!
Consider yourself very lucky that she has allowed you to escape so lightly...
...!
Now find a nice comfy arm-chair, light up the gas fire, pop a humourous video into the slot, crack open a couple , (or three), cans of Heineken, sit down, enjoy the video, and contemplate upon your extreme good luck...
...!
It may not happen again...
...!
. from one who knows all about such things...
...!
LOL...LOL...LOL..!
Cheers mate...
...!
Paul.
(England).
P.S. by the way...were you wearing your "Lederhosen" when you asked her out...?
Remember that tip the next time a female attempts to snare you...
...
...
...!
LOL...LOL...LOL..!
Dell Dimension 5000 BTX Tower. Win7 Home Edition, 32 Bit. Intel Pentium 4, dual 2.8 GHz. 2.5GB RAM, nVidia GF 9500GT 1GB. SATA 500GB + 80GB. Philips 17" LCD Monitor. Micronet ADSL Modem only. Saitek Cyborg Evo Force. FS 2004 + FSX. Briggs and Stratton Petrol Lawn Mower...Motor Bikes. Gas Cooker... and lots of musical instruments!.... ...!
Yamaha MO6,MM6,DX7,DX11,DX21,DX100,MK100,EMT10,PSR400,PSS780,Roland GW-8L v2,TR505,Casio MT-205,Korg CX3v2 dual manual,+ Leslie 760,M-Audio Prokeys88,KeyRig,Cubase,Keyfax4,Guitars,Orchestral,Baroque,Renaissance,Medieval Instruments.
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Reply #38 -
Nov 2
nd
, 2003 at 12:56pm
Silent Exploder
Ex Member
oh,paul...
okay,i'll try to get over it....but using my way of coping with things: playing computer games till i'm mad!
-edit: i'll ask her again during next week. hopefully,she'll change her mind.
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Reply #39 -
Nov 2
nd
, 2003 at 1:07pm
Fozzer
Offline
Colonel
An elderly FS 2004 addict!
Hereford. England. EGBS.
Posts: 24861
Quote:
ok, paul...
...-edit: i'll ask her again during next week. hopefully,she'll change her mind.
Blimey Silent...
...!
For my sake and your future hapiness and sanity, don't forget to don your leather shorts, pointy hat with a feather, wooly socks, buckled shoes, etc, before-hand*....
Fortunately, lately, I have never had to resort to that extreme, to avoid getting caught in their sticky web of deceit.....
....!
LOL...LOL...LOL...!
Cheers mate...
...!
Paul.
(England).
..*and don't forget the blown-up pigs bladder on a stick...
...!
Dell Dimension 5000 BTX Tower. Win7 Home Edition, 32 Bit. Intel Pentium 4, dual 2.8 GHz. 2.5GB RAM, nVidia GF 9500GT 1GB. SATA 500GB + 80GB. Philips 17" LCD Monitor. Micronet ADSL Modem only. Saitek Cyborg Evo Force. FS 2004 + FSX. Briggs and Stratton Petrol Lawn Mower...Motor Bikes. Gas Cooker... and lots of musical instruments!.... ...!
Yamaha MO6,MM6,DX7,DX11,DX21,DX100,MK100,EMT10,PSR400,PSS780,Roland GW-8L v2,TR505,Casio MT-205,Korg CX3v2 dual manual,+ Leslie 760,M-Audio Prokeys88,KeyRig,Cubase,Keyfax4,Guitars,Orchestral,Baroque,Renaissance,Medieval Instruments.
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Reply #40 -
Nov 2
nd
, 2003 at 1:16pm
ozzy72
Offline
Global Moderator
Pretty scary huh?
Madsville
Gender:
Posts: 37122
Silent DON'T go there mate
Trust me as one who got 'excessively lucky', and now is married!!! And skint!!!
Best advice play CFS till you drop, or until the beer causes your head to collapse onto the keyboard
Ozzy 8)
There are two types of aeroplane, Spitfires and everything else that wishes it was a Spitfire!
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Reply #41 -
Nov 3
rd
, 2003 at 5:47am
Silent Exploder
Ex Member
ummm...mkay,ozzy.
i'll try to forget....but it won't be easy,because ....oh,well,this is a long story....
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