I've just been doing some reading, mainly on the armaments of all the different Fighter aircraft in WWII.
I did however come across a section devoted to the different types and amounts of armour used and when it was introduced.

I wasn't too surprised to find that the Polikalov I-16 was the first fighter to have armour, albeit a single 8mm (5/16") plate behind the pilots headrest.

But to my utter surprise I learnt that all the Hurricanes and Spitfires that took part in the Battle of France (May - June '40), and this included basically the entire compliment in the RAF, had absolutely no armour at all.

Armour was hurriedly fitted (after a few lessons were learnt, I imagine) before the BoB got under way about a month or six weeks after the fall of France.

A very fortunate 6 week break for RAF pilots, I dare say. 

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I guess when they built the early Spits and Hurries they never really gave thick armour plate much thought. I'm sure the weight penalty was a factor also.
You can tell the Spits with armour because they have a flat windscreen. Look at a PR Spit and the screen (un-armoured) is a nice curved shape.
I think it's true also that the Japaneese didn't fit much, if any, armour to some fighters in order to keep down weight and improve performance. They paid the price for that omission.

Lovely shots Doug, you could have let me know you had them! I haven't managed to crawl to Tangmere yet And yes she is v.accurate. The paint was taken from a model painted with the same paint they did the K5054 that belonged to Gordon Mitchell (RJs son).
For more info check http://www.supermarine-spitfire.co.uk/k5054.html
With the Hurris and Spits not having armour, well the story goes that some US pilots who joined the RAF insisted on having some bolted behind their seats as an unofficial modification, and it seemed to work rather well, as the American pilots kept getting home.
As for the armoured windscreens, the head of Fighter Command (I can't remember his name at the min.) was arguing with the Air Ministry that they needed them, and the pencil necks were saying "Its too expensive", so his parting shot was "If its good enough for Chicago gangsters, its good enough for my pilots". Needless to say he got his way. Thank goodness

Ozzy

I think in hendon there is a windscreen taken from a spitfire with a bullet in it. The remarkable thing about it is that the bullet came from behind...

What a beautiful aircraft. Thanks for posting those photos Hagar pal.

If anyone was caught napping it was the RAF with their outdated ideas & tactics. The post-WWI RAF was more like a gentleman's club. The leaders forgot the lessons learned in WWI so the pilots had to learn them all over again - rapidly. NCO pilots were not allowed to fraternise with the officers they fought alongside so did not take part in the latest discussions on tactics in the mess. Utter stupidity.

As Ozzy points out, Dowding had to use threats & all his powers of persuasion to get armour fitted to give some protection to his "boys". It amazes me that we got away with it in the BoB.

PS. Dowding was never forgiven for his attitude to the pen-pushers & higher authority in general. Soon after the BoB had been won he was told his services were no longer required. He was sent to the USA to serve in the Ministry of Aircraft Production. What a waste. This great man retired from the RAF in 1942.

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I'm not surprised. Unfortunately this is how Britain usually thanks its heroes. I could name many similar examples.

Read this. http://www.maidenhead-advertiser.co.uk/news/news_gen2.html
A sign of the times which makes me ashamed of my country. I'm sure this is not what those guys were fighting for.

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I am going to get flamed for this.  So be it.

As a health professional who works very closely with the ambulance service I have to champion their defense.

They (paramedic's and technicians) do not refuse to lift someone off the floor unless they have good reason to do so.  This usually has something to do with the weight of the patient.  Nurses do not lift patients off  the floor without the right equipment either, I see no need to cripple my self for life for the sake of a fifteen minute wait for the correct equipment to turn up. 

It is likely that in this circumstance it was impossible to lift the gentleman without the risk of injury to the lifters.  Consider what good it would have done to the patient if during the lift one of the crew had suffered an injury and had been forced to drop him.

The head line would have been "Paramedic drops war hero on floor whilst illegally lifting him".

Also note that I can (and would) lose my job with no pension and no compensation if I was to illegally lift a patient and cause myself an injury that prevented me from working.  The correct way of dealing with a situation like this is for the ambulance crew to request assistance from the fire brigade, which according to the radio news report is exactly what they did.

Will

Hi Will. I was hoping you would give us your professional opinion on this. I realise you can't rely on media reports but understand this is a frail old man weighing under 10 stone. Now I'm convinced that 2 properly trained paramedics would be quite cabable of lifting him safely without injury to either him or themselves. If they can't do this they're not suitable for the job. IMHO
The health authority were apparently aware of what had happened so why send them in the first place if they were not allowed to help? From the report, the carer helped him up on her own.
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I don't blame the paramedics, they were simply following the rules. Not sure I blame the health authority either. I suspect they're more frightened of being sued for something or other & make rules to cover themselves. That's the shame of it & the "caring" society we live in. I'm scared of gettting old.

PS, I'm sure your Mum would have ignored the rules & done everything she could to at least make the old man comfortable.

Sorry Will. I had just heard about this on the radio when I posted it. I don't mind admitting it made me mad.

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I appreciate what you're saying. I don't know anything about this man but I'm sure the knighthood was deserved. That's not the point. My question is - how many other poor souls are treated like this due to the litigation-crazy world we live in? If we allow this to continue nobody will dare to help anyone, no matter what danger they're in.

Sorry Hagar, you replied whilst I was responding to Mark's comments.  The thing with lifting is that we are not allowed to do it, period.  The carer shouldn't have lifted him either, that she did was her decision and she would have been under pressure from her employer to do something.

My response to the situation is impossible to know as I wasn't there but in my experience people of a certain age and background consider us to be servants and treat us in this manner.  I have often found my self in the situation of being informed that I am "not allowed" to give a patient oxygen or put the bed sides up as "He won't like that"  On one occasion I was called to a stroke patient who had suffered a stroke and was choking.  We (the 'team') had informed the family that due to the fact that his swallow reflex was compromised he was unable to eat and drink and was therefore nil by mouth.  His Son, a highly intelligent man, had decided that this was simply not good enough for Father and had given him a drink of water.  Now in addition to the stroke he developed an inhalation Pneumonia and nearly died  The family tried (unsuccsesfully) to sue the hospital due to the hospital acquired infection.....

I would bet that in this situation the crew arrived and were greeted by a relative who immediately started berating them for not getting there sooner (she had waited an hour).  They probably found the gentleman slumped in a corner somewhere and knew that they were going to have to apply brute force to get him anywhere.  Patients of this sort invariably cry out when you lay a finger on them and his wife may have been in the back ground shouting "Stop it! you are hurting him."

Alternatively two guys who couldn't give a F**k were sent round to get the poor old gent back to his bed and decided that they couldn't be bothered.

Normally I would agree that it is odd that they were unable to move the gentleman onto a stretcher and then transfer him to his bed and considering that he was frail and less than ten stone I would imagine that I would be capable of lifting him alone.

I guess we'll never know.  Apologies for any offense caused to the upper and middle classes who think that they're better than me because daddy was loaded.

Will

Sorry if I caused any offence. I was not trying to have a go at how the health service is run or how almost everything in this country has deteriorated over the last few years. I would need a complete new thread to do that. LOL

I was simply trying to point out how badly this country has always treated its war heroes. The continued loyalty of our armed forces has never ceased to amaze me.

Maybe we should all hobble around with our walking frames muttering "Frankly my dear I DO give a damn!"

Only 'cos you have to wear it at home Will when you've been a bad boy

Mark