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I love flying, but.... (Read 510 times)
Aug 26th, 2003 at 11:54am

Scottler   Offline
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You all know that aviation is truly a passion for me, and probably for many of you as well.

HOWEVER....

I recently attended an airshow, and the Airboss noted that there would be a B-17 in town this week offering rides.

What makes this truly an amazing opportunity is that out of the 2000+ B-17s that were built, only 12 are left in the US that are in flyable condition.  And out of the dozen that remain, only about half are actually flying today.

This is literally a once in a lifetime opportunity.

Do you know what they're charging for a ride in this relic?

$395!!!  A PERSON!!!  I would have loved to have taken my girlfriend for a ride, just to share with her this piece of our history, however, I'm not about to shell out $800 for a short spin in the thing!

IMHO, they would have made much more money if they'd charged less, and made up for it in volume.  Sure, it would have put more hours on the ship, but the money that was raised would be able to help with the maintenance...

Unbelievable...

I'm curious...how many of you here would spend that kind of cash on this?  How many of you actually have?
 

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Reply #1 - Aug 26th, 2003 at 12:14pm

Rifleman   Offline
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Here is a match for you Scott.........one of the bigger free flight model contests I have attended in the past is on the airfield at Geneseo NY where they have a war (aviation) museum of sorts..........they have two AT-6/SN-J types in which you can get a ride.........I watched as a father bought both sons a ride, for $150 each, same time, different planes.......I wanted to give it a go, but the $150/hr was too much for me........?

Here are those birds........

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Reply #2 - Aug 26th, 2003 at 12:21pm

Hagar   Offline
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It depends on your circumstances & how much it means to you. $395 US (£250) sounds a reasonable enough price for a ride in a rare aircraft. Personally, I wouldn't be too worried about flying as a passenger in a B-17. I would willingly shell out the £2,000 which I understand is the going rate for a ride in Carolyn Grace's Spitfire. Unfortunately the waiting list is far too long.
 

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Reply #3 - Aug 26th, 2003 at 12:33pm

Craig.   Offline
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i get to see one of those b17's next month at yeovil airshow, great plane cant wait
 
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Reply #4 - Aug 26th, 2003 at 12:36pm

Scottler   Offline
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Oh, it's definitely not a matter of having the money to spend if its something I thought worth it...It's just the principle.

Figure, at best you're going to get up there for an hour.  (And that's an extremely generous assumption.)

I just don't think that it's worth $395 (per person) for this...IMHO
 

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Reply #5 - Aug 26th, 2003 at 12:44pm

Hagar   Offline
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That's your decision. I imagine the proceeds (after running costs) go towards the maintenance of the aircraft.

Quote:
What makes this truly an amazing opportunity is that out of the 2000+ B-17s that were built, only 12 are left in the US that are in flyable condition.  And out of the dozen that remain, only about half are actually flying today.

Keeping these old birds flying for our pleasure is expensive. I imagine lack of funds is the reason for the other 6 being grounded. Roll Eyes
 

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Reply #6 - Aug 26th, 2003 at 12:45pm

Craig.   Offline
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then again you gotta ask yourself, is this something you may get to do ever again, then again is a B17 something you really have that much interest in flying on?? like you i love flying, i worked some crappy jobs just to experiance a few lessons, and the chance to fly to the states a few times. but does flying on a b17 interest me? not really, it would be cool but not worth that much. almost 4 more logged hours, or something else, i am not sure the exact cost of it but theres a dog fighting day avaliable for around that cost aswell, which would be more fun, again one of those rare experiances
 
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Reply #7 - Aug 26th, 2003 at 1:01pm

Hagar   Offline
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My old company sponsors the "Sally B", the only airworthy B-17 in Europe. As a company representative I was given a guided tour of the aircraft at Duxford last year. If I remember right she is only licenced to carry 4 passengers so they don't make a great deal of profit from passenger flights. They fitted airline type seats in the fuselage specifically for the purpose. I wouldn't have turned down the opportunity of a free flight but wouldn't have paid for it. On the other hand it would mean so much to a great many people who would willingly pay up.

It was a special gift but I believe my recent aerobatic lesson in the Extra 300 cost about the same. I know which I would prefer. That was certainly worth every penny.  Grin
 

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Reply #8 - Aug 26th, 2003 at 1:14pm

Scottler   Offline
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Well, it's definitely something that would interest me, being both an aviation buff and a history freak.  However, there's got to be a happy medium somewhere.

100 rides at $20 per passenger is going to yield $2000.

2 rides at $400 is only going to raise $800.

Seems to me that not enough people don't have this concept in mind anymore...
 

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Reply #9 - Aug 26th, 2003 at 1:20pm

Craig.   Offline
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remember though the 100 rides will take its toll on the airframe alot more than two, you may get $2000 out of it but the maintanence costs will be increased a heck of alot more than 2 rides. and of coarse fuel costs, more flights more fuel, higher costs
 
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Reply #10 - Aug 26th, 2003 at 1:28pm

Hagar   Offline
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I think you have to be realistic. I don't know how long the aircraft was available for pleasure flying but I suspect it was not nearly long enough for 100 trips. In the Sally B with 4 passenger seats an hour's flight for 100 passengers would take 25 hours. I doubt that $80 per hour would cover the cost of the fuel. It's the engine hours you have to watch rather than airframe. Take-offs tear the guts out of the engines & I'm sure the number allowed during a season is closely monitored.
 

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Reply #11 - Aug 26th, 2003 at 1:36pm

Smoke2much   Offline
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I'd gladly pay £250 for an hour's flight in a B-17.  If you consider the cost of modern airtravel, for example from London City to Ronaldsway (IOM) costs around £140.  The flight takes approx 40 minutes, or 2/3rds of an hour.

(140/2)*3 gives you £210 per hour for a flight in a modern and very dull aircraft.

£250 for the experience of a lifetime flying in a B-17 suddenly doesn't seem as much.

Also Hyperion's economy of scale example is heavily loaded.

100 people at $20 gives $2000 over 25 fully booked flights.

At $400 dollars per flight even if you get only 10% of the interest you still sell 10 flights and double your money. ($4000)

Will
 

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Reply #12 - Aug 26th, 2003 at 1:48pm

Scottler   Offline
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Right, but it's a matter of balancing things properly.  Yes, you'll have more take offs and landings, but the flights themselves will be shorter, therefore, less fuel would be burned in cruise....

It's not impossible...
 

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Reply #13 - Aug 26th, 2003 at 1:55pm

Craig.   Offline
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problem is takeoff is the most stressfull part of flight for an aircraft, so the more takeoffs you have the more wear and tear is going to be even more. in theory your idea is sound, problem is there is alot to be qorked round to put it into practise
 
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Reply #14 - Aug 26th, 2003 at 2:17pm

Hagar   Offline
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Well, I think this discussion is pointless. Whatever we say is not likely to affect anything. I'm sure the costs have been carefully worked out. These people are not usually profiteers or rip-off merchants - they're simply doing it to keep the aircraft flying. If doing so gives a little pleasure to those who don't mind paying the agreed price for a unique experience who can argue?
 

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Reply #15 - Aug 26th, 2003 at 2:18pm

flyboy 28   Offline
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Just be lucky you could have an hour up there. At the Sussex Airshow, It's $200 for 15 minutes in a 17. Then at the Willow Grove NAS Airshow, it's $30 for 10 minutes in a helo. Hell, I could go on FS twice for 30 minutes and it would pay for itself. Just be lucky you don't live in Jersey...
 
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Reply #16 - Aug 26th, 2003 at 2:32pm

Mr. Bones   Offline
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it's a lot of money...but when you really adore a plane, than it's worth the money. if they told me i could join a flight on lets say a B-1...they can ask me whatever they want. what i want to say is: it depends on what the plane means for you... Wink
 

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Reply #17 - Aug 26th, 2003 at 3:26pm

ozzy72   Offline
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I'm with Hagar on this, and remember take-offs and landings are the most stressful times for the aircraft.
I think the Grace Spitfire is now about 2500 quid a go, and a nearly 3 year waiting list. Would I shell out the money for this, you'd better believe it.
Like Hagar says, its what its worth too you. For me the Spitfire is a religious thing (some of you may have noticed this about me Grin), so the dough doesn't enter the equasion. Its like all things in life a compromise of need v. desire.

Ozzy

PS. For a flight on a 17 it sounds pretty reasonable, its still less than it costs me to fly from Budapest to London return just to see relatives I don't really like Grin
 

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Reply #18 - Aug 26th, 2003 at 4:44pm

BFMF   Offline
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Can you tell me the name of the B-17 and who owns it? It might be the same one that I got to see a couple months ago Cheesy
 
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Reply #19 - Aug 26th, 2003 at 4:51pm

HawkerTempest5   Offline
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I can only echo what Ozzy and Hagar are saying here. These old Warbirds have a finite life span, limited hours and HUGE running costs. Since 9-11 aircraft insurance has gone through the roof. It costs £5000 per hour to fly "Sally B" so one of the ways to recoup the cost is by charging for pleasure flights.
Would I pay £250 for a B-17 flight? In a second. I'd be taking a ride of a lifetime in a plane from an era in history that is of great interest to me and I would be doing my bit, however small, to help keep a wounderful old aircraft flying for another year.

Just to show how limited the hours are for these aircraft, BBMF only fly their fighters for a total of 40 hours each per season and 100 hours on the Lancaster and that includes transit times.
 

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