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Man and Machine (Read 601 times)
Aug 22nd, 2003 at 1:49pm

Katahu   Offline
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We have already been dominated by Man vs. Machine movies like "The Terminator: Rise of the Machines" and "The Matrix: Reloaded". We will soon been wasting money in order to see the next one, "The Matrix: Revolutions".

These movies make me think a lot.

Already, in real life, we are seeing man's rapid progress in creating robots and forms of A.I. (Artificial Intelligence). The USAF has already using planes the don't need a pilot in the cockpit (the pilot is on the ground). The RAH-66 Comanche of the US Army is designed to almost handle itself (easier to fly).

Not only that, Japan has already created robots that not only walk like us humans, but can almost think a human. Scary thought, huh?

With all these Man vs. Machine movies coming around, it makes us all think. If machines were to advance rapidly, which scenario would most likely happen? The Terminator scenario or the Matrix scenario?

I hope this topic doesn't start a flare up.
 
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Reply #1 - Aug 22nd, 2003 at 2:12pm

Fozzer   Offline
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I'll go for Terminator... Wink...!
Hoovering my carpet, washing my pants and socks, mowing the grass on my lawn, doing my shopping, etc..... Grin...!

...Ah'll be back again tomorrow... 8)...

LOL...!

Cheers all..
Paul.
(England)
 
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Reply #2 - Aug 23rd, 2003 at 12:56am

Professor Brensec   Offline
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I'm pretty sure that unless an almost 'infinite' power source is found to run such machines (like say, Data from Star Trek), they would never be a threat.

Although, technically, the machines could prove more powerful and, even from a tactical point of view, smarter, they would always be limited by the power source that they need to run. That way Humans will always have the upper hand and be able to control them, even if they were to 'revolt' and try to take over.

Just flick the switch!

P.S. In order for such a thing, as demonstrated in these movies, to happen, the machines would have to 'exceed the sum of their programming' in order to 'make the decision' to revolt. This is not within the capabilities of a 'programable' machine. I'm also sure that if a machine was, eventually able to exceed it's program and learn, discern and WANT for itself, a failsafe would need to be built in. At least I would have to put one in if I was responsible.  Grin Grin Wink
 
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Reply #3 - Aug 23rd, 2003 at 2:54am

Jester   Offline
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Hmmm...
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I'm with brensec. I would offer this as well - human behavoir is completely unpredictable. This alone with play havoc in any attempted machine revolt. We often live and make choices by nothing more than instinct. It's hard to believe a machine could have a "gut" on which to base actions or choices.

Jes
 
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Reply #4 - Aug 23rd, 2003 at 3:05am

ozzy72   Offline
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Pretty scary huh?
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I don't suppose any of you have heard of Asimovs Laws of Robotics? Laid down to prevent such happenings Roll Eyes

Ozzy.

PS. Wouldn't mind that domestic cleaning robot thought Fozzer, I'm fed-up with housework!
 
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Reply #5 - Aug 23rd, 2003 at 6:43am

Professor Brensec   Offline
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Ozzy,

I know Azimov was a Sci-Fi writer and he had a few books which included 'Robot' themes. But I don't know what you're on about, no.  Grin Wink  ??? ???
 
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Reply #6 - Aug 23rd, 2003 at 7:08am

ozzy72   Offline
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Pretty scary huh?
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He established these laws back in the 1940s, and they have been the theoretical basis of intelligent robotics since, so just for you Steve;

First Law:
A robot may not injure a human being, or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.

Second Law:
A robot must obey orders given it by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.

Third Law:
A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.

Mark Wink
 
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There are two types of aeroplane, Spitfires and everything else that wishes it was a Spitfire!
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Reply #7 - Aug 23rd, 2003 at 7:18am

Hagar   Offline
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Quote:
He established these laws back in the 1940s, and they have been the theoretical basis of intelligent robotics since, so just for you Steve;

First Law:
A robot may not injure a human being, or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.

Second Law:
A robot must obey orders given it by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.

Third Law:
A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.

Mark Wink

All very nice in an ideal world. Not everyone takes any notice of laws. Governments, even so-called respectable ones, are the main culprits in this respect. I don't trust any of 'em. Roll Eyes
 
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Reply #8 - Aug 23rd, 2003 at 7:19am

Fozzer   Offline
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Fourth Law:
errr...errr...
...beep...beep...memory overload...forgotten the first three...Destroy...Destroy... Angry...!

LOL...LOL...LOL...!

Cheers all... Grin...!
Paul....come on Terminator, get your pinny on. Time to cook my dinner... 8)..!
(England).
 
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Reply #9 - Aug 23rd, 2003 at 7:22am

ozzy72   Offline
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Agreed Doug, not everyone does respect these laws, especially Fozzer who seems to be trying to impose some sort of male chauvanist stereotype onto a Terminator Grin

Mark
 
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Reply #10 - Aug 23rd, 2003 at 7:36am

Fozzer   Offline
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Quote:
....Fozzer seems to be trying to impose some sort of male chauvanist stereotype onto a Terminator Grin

Mark


Hi Mark..!
You havent seen him with a frock, handbag, and high-heeled shoes yet... Wink...!
We are partying tonight after "he?" has cooked my dinner... Tongue...!

LOL...LOL...LOL... Grin...!

Cheers mate...
Paul..."Terminator..you haven't learned how to put that lipstick on properly yet...." Angry
(England)
 
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Reply #11 - Aug 23rd, 2003 at 7:58am

ozzy72   Offline
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Fozzer, err have you taken your medication? I mean finding anything that looks like Arnold Schwarzenegger attractive worries me deeply..... Or you've been at the Scrumpy again Grin
 
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Reply #12 - Aug 23rd, 2003 at 8:17am

Fozzer   Offline
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Quote:
Fozzer, err have you taken your medication? I mean finding anything that looks like Arnold Schwarzenegger attractive worries me deeply..... Or you've been at the Scrumpy again Grin


Nah...!
It's just the idea of robots doing the every-day things in life for me... Grin...!
..(with certain exceptions, of course)... Shocked...!

LOL...LOL...LOL...!

Cheers mate...!
Paul...."Terminator...ironing time!..."... Smiley
(England)
« Last Edit: Aug 23rd, 2003 at 2:25pm by Fozzer »  
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Reply #13 - Aug 23rd, 2003 at 2:05pm

Katahu   Offline
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Man, so many replies in a short time. Hehe.

Those laws have a good point. However, we so-called violent humans have a nasty habit of ignoring laws.

I downloaded a QuickTime video of the Animatrix long ago (140MB through a 56K connection Sad ).

In the video, the narrator (shown as a ditigal, female file holder) mentioned this:

"In the Beginning, there was man. And for a time, it was good. But man's so-called civil societies soon fell victim to vanity and corruption.

"Then man made the machine in his own liking (image). Thus did man become the architecht of his own demise. The machines worked tirelessly to do man's bidding.

"However, it did not take long before seeds of decent took root. However loyal and pure, the machines earned no respect from their masters, these strange and multiplying mammals."

This little video of the Animatrix was titled "The Second Renaissance: Part 1" I haven't been able to download the second part (155MB).

What kind of message do you think this brings to you?

Architect of his own demise
Seeds of decent
And so on.
 
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Reply #14 - Aug 23rd, 2003 at 2:39pm

Fozzer   Offline
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Quote:
....What kind of message do you think this brings to you?


...ALWAYS be nice to your washing machine,
..and keep a wary eye out for any unruly behavour...
It is quite possible that the front loader door will suddenly open and devour you.. Shocked...!

"Architect of his own demise"...someone who sits on the end of a tree branch while sawing it off... Roll Eyes...!

LOL...LOL...LOL...!

Cheers all... Grin...!
Paul.
(England).
 
Dell Dimension 5000 BTX Tower. Win7 Home Edition, 32 Bit. Intel Pentium 4, dual 2.8 GHz. 2.5GB RAM, nVidia GF 9500GT 1GB. SATA 500GB + 80GB. Philips 17" LCD Monitor. Micronet ADSL Modem only. Saitek Cyborg Evo Force. FS 2004 + FSX. Briggs and Stratton Petrol Lawn Mower...Motor Bikes. Gas Cooker... and lots of musical instruments!.... ...!
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Reply #15 - Aug 23rd, 2003 at 2:42pm

Hagar   Offline
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Quote:
What kind of message do you think this brings to you?

Architect of his own demise
Seeds of decent
And so on.

I think you mean "seeds of dissent." The message is obvious. Man cound not resist making the machines in his own image. The machines revolted & destroyed Man.
 
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Reply #16 - Aug 24th, 2003 at 1:27am

Professor Brensec   Offline
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Hey Ozzy,

I seem to recall in the first few minutes of the film "Bicentenial man", Robin Williams uttered these same rules.

(That was a good film. One of the very few that the Mrs and I both liked and actually found to be both enjoyable and quite 'touching').  Very good movie for anyone who hasn't seen it.
Your kids could watch it too, without feeling a need to stick pins into small creatures afterwards.......... Grin Grin Wink
 
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Reply #17 - Aug 24th, 2003 at 1:52am

WebbPA   Ex Member
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Robocop, a far cry from Asimov's robots, also had preprogrammed rules which he was able to disobey.

So far no AI has been able to pass the Turing test, so we're safe for a while.

If MS designs the software we'll be safe for a long time.
 
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Reply #18 - Aug 24th, 2003 at 2:01am

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It's not the MS software that's a problem it's when FS sim designers decide they would like a change of direction and take over I'll be worried Grin
 
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