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P40 two seater (another one) (Read 3011 times)
Jul 26th, 2003 at 4:09am

Professor Brensec   Offline
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I found this pic today, of a P40-M while wandering around the Net. Funnily, there is also a pic of a plane with exactly the same markings but in the original one-seat config. - I'm a little perplexed?? Grin

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I posted a pic of a P40N two seater, which everyone was relatively surprised to see. Now there's this one, too.  Grin Grin Wink
 
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Reply #1 - Jul 26th, 2003 at 4:26am

ozzy72   Offline
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Well I for one can't believe there is another one. The 40 was quite a good design for shoving in an extra seat, unlike the Spit of Hurri.
Nice to see them fly, and some lucky devils get the opportunity to go up in one Angry

Cheers Brensec
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Reply #2 - Jul 26th, 2003 at 4:55am

Hagar   Offline
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Your photos look like the Fighter Collection P-40N (G-KITT) which is a single-seater. I believe the photographer Ben Rogers is based at Duxford. Our friend Tempest would know more about it than me but it's just possible it was later converted to a 2-seater.  The TFC Kittyhawk is painted to represent a P-40E 'Aleutian Tiger' of the USAAF's 11th squadron , 343 rd Fighter Group, based in the Aleutians during 1942/3
I'm not sure in this case but it's not unusual for there to be more than one example of a restored aircraft in famous markings. I believe there's at least 3 different examples of P-51D "Big Beautiful Doll" in various places around the world.

PS. Although I've seen it described as a P-40M, G-KITT is registered as a P-40N. http://www.caa.co.uk/srg/aircraft_register/ginfo/search.asp
I'm not sure of the difference without looking it up.
 
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Reply #3 - Jul 26th, 2003 at 5:16am

ozzy72   Offline
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Ben is most definately Duxfords main photographer, his stuff for warbirds is simply awesome.
I believe this one was converted Doug, if you have a look at the first shot, that isn't the normal back part of the 'pit, it looks like a seat and harnesses. I'll ask Roger though too.

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Reply #4 - Jul 26th, 2003 at 6:00am

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Hagar is spot on here. This is TFC P-40. IT is not dual control but does have a second seat fitted. I think OFMC's P-40 also has a second seat but again is not dual control.
« Last Edit: Jul 26th, 2003 at 6:23pm by HawkerTempest5 »  
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Reply #5 - Jul 26th, 2003 at 9:02am

Professor Brensec   Offline
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Thanks for all this info people.

It's all very interesting to me . As you know, the P40 is 'MY' plane. Especially being Aussie. It was better than anything we came up with, until we started making the Boomerang, which wasn't bad, just too slow.

We also seemed to be able to score the kills against the Japs, just as the Tigers did in China. Tactics and training was the key.
Also the fact that, although it had it's performance limitations at height, it was still a 350 mph fighter in 1941. Faster than the Zeros, so good for hit'n'run, or 'boom'n'zoom' as you Yanks call it.

It's nice to know that there are at least a couple of P40's I can have a ride in one day, if I ever really want to look them up and go to the trouble and cost.

As for the comment 'the P40 was better suited to two seat conversion'. Most definitely. There seems to be ample room for an extra seat, if not the extra controls for training.
In fact, the rear of the cockpit seems to have the perspex extending back over the fuselage, almost as if they were going to have a two seater and at the last minute decided not to.........lol Grin Grin Wink

Antway, thanks for the info.  Grin Grin Wink

 
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Reply #6 - Jul 26th, 2003 at 9:37am

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Odd I thought the extended greenhouse was for better rearward visibility..... Just goes to show Roll Eyes
 
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Reply #7 - Jul 26th, 2003 at 4:49pm

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If you ever make it here to South Florida, the Weeks museum(KTMB) has a "true" two seat P-40, with the extended canopy. Sort of reminds me of TBM(Avenger) meets P40. I can appreciate it for it's value as a rarity, but also being a P40 fan,(I still watch the movie 1941 on a regular basis), I have to admit, I think it's kinda ugly. Sad
 
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Reply #8 - Jul 27th, 2003 at 2:15am

Professor Brensec   Offline
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Quote:
Odd I thought the extended greenhouse was for better rearward visibility..... Just goes to show Roll Eyes


If you look at the shot of the 'un-modified' one, in my post, and you'll see that the rear section of the cockpit, although it has a perpsex sheet, it seems to be directly over the sheet aluminium of the fuselage.
The reason for my comments is that I can't see a reason for that rear piece of perspex extending past the cockpit as it does.  Grin Grin Wink
 
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Reply #9 - Jul 27th, 2003 at 3:04am

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The reason for the windows over the scalloped out turtle deck is for rear visibility for the pilot.......it was an intentional design addition to aid the boss and had nothing to do with leaving space for a second seat....found this out from a very good aviation historian while walking through the Glenn Curtiss Museum in Hammondsport NY........they have a 3/4 scale version in there....full size wasn't available when this one came up, so they grabbed it anyway......

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Reply #10 - Jul 27th, 2003 at 5:53am

Professor Brensec   Offline
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Oh, I didn't think for a minute that that bit of the design had anything to do with the provision for a second seat.
I just mentioned that it seems to suit that purpose so well that it 'almost' looks as though it was planned.
Grin Grin Wink
 
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Reply #11 - Jul 27th, 2003 at 7:40am

ozzy72   Offline
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I was only pulling your leg Steve. I don't think Ken twigged though Roll Eyes

Mark 8)
 
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Reply #12 - Jul 27th, 2003 at 8:18am

Hagar   Offline
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I think these photos might help. This P-40F has the original improved rear-view rear canopy. The shadows show the contours of the scalloped decking quite clearly. I always assumed this contains the fuel tank?

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The upper diagram shows the same thing on the original P-40N. The lower one shows a further modification for improved rear view introduced on the P-40N-5-CU & used on subsequent versions.

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This is the factory-built 2-seater trainer TP-40N-30CU.

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Reply #13 - Jul 27th, 2003 at 10:13am

Rifleman   Offline
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Fuel tank that far back behind the C of G ? I wouldn't want it that way.....you'd always be landing nose heavy when going dry.............

Your second image looks to be from the Squadron Signal Publication of " P-40 in Action "......I believe I have that one.......
 
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Reply #14 - Jul 27th, 2003 at 10:29am

Hagar   Offline
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Quote:
Fuel tank that far back behind the C of G ? I wouldn't want it that way.....you'd always be landing nose heavy when going dry.............

I could be quite wrong about the tank. There must be something important in there or they would have removed the decking in that area completely. I must check it out instead of guessing.
The Bf 109 had the main fuel tank located behind the pilot's seat. The Hurricane & Spit had a fuel tank in front of the instrument panel. With space at a premium, wherever they put the thing it's a tad dangerous. Roll Eyes

Quote:
Your second image looks to be from the Squadron Signal Publication of " P-40 in Action "......I believe I have that one.......

I found that image on the site I posted the link to.

PS. I just checked my bible "The Complete Book of Fighters" by William Green & Gordon Swanborough. The P-40E had a fuel tank of 51.5 Imperial Gallons capacity located directly behind the pilot's seat & below that scalloped turtle decking. I'm not sure where they could move it to on the 2-seat versions.
 
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