As great as the Spitfire was I still prefer the Hurricane.

It was a steadier gun platform (the Spit would wobble all over the place when the guns were firing) and it could actually turn in a tighter circle.  It could also soak up a lot more damage and still fly.

But the Spitfire was faster and more manuveurable and wasn't as heavy as the Hurri, though...suppose it depends what the pilot likes better.

PS:  About the guns...they were all configured to hit the same spot, so if the pilot couldn't aim, he would only waste 8 times the ammo...LOL.   That was only the early Spits and Hurris that had eight machine guns.  Later models had cannons/machine guns and cannons.

Both the Spitfire and the Hurricane were and are magnificent aircraft.
The Hurricane had more bomber kills than the Spitfire as the Spitfires tended to be used to chase off the 109s, and the Hurricane could take the pounding and still take out the bombers, no matter how good the enemies gunners were.
Quite frankly without these two magnificent aircraft Britain would surely have lost.
But yeah I love the Spitfire, and my wife knows its the only potential threat to our marriage, she'll come home and find me in bed with one

Ozzy 8)

Nah Will, Whitey and myself are working on a joint project at the moment, so no arguing allowed. Meanwhile if anyone else says anything bad about the Spitfire I will of course be obliged to come around and cover their house in marmalade, that reminds me I must pop over to see Ken with Fozzer

   
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In reality, we had to save them with P-51s and P-38s,
and a few thousand B-17s!!

In reality if we hadn't all worked together, the world
would be a lot differant today!!

X 

I think it boils down to the training

An aircraft in the hands of a trained pilot can be a deadly machine. Both the Spitfire & Hurricanes were excellent aircraft, but a pilot trained especially for the spitfire might not be as good in a hurricane

Might be wrong, but my 2 cents anyway

How many times have we had this discussion, Whitey, Hagar, Hawker, Ozzy, Andrew etc.

Doesn't matter, I still love it. I'm at work and need a good 'discussion' post to kill a few hours......lol

My opinions, although wel enough known by the regs:

I personally prefer the Hurricane as a fighter, simply because of that tight turn. It suits my fighting style. Also, it's tue it could take more of a pounding.
There are many stories of Hurri's coming home, torn to shreds, but when they took a good look, there was liitle structural damage and little damage to controls etc. Just torn canvas.
Also it had wider spaced wheels for easier landings (especially for all those 'short timer pilots').

The Spitfire, of course had the power the speed and the altitude. And they say the manoevrability (although I consider turn circle a large aspect of manoevrability).
It was certainly a much 'nicer looking' plane (almost as beautiful as a P40.......lol). So I see how it was the 'pet' of the media and the public.

But when all is said and done, they both did their jobs wonderfully and both are as responsible for the Victory in the BoB as each other.

Of course, if a few hundred P40's had been fitted with super-charged Merlins, the Battle would only have lasted half as long. 

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I know mate. Just wishful thinking on my part.
I have to believe that my favourite fighter is as good as these two planes.......lol

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Tsk Tsk Tsk.

*Shakes head*

If you'd joined in when we asked.........

Anyway, if it wasn't for some bloke called, what was his name?  Oh yeah George Washington or Wimbledon or something, you'd still have been a colony and would have got to fly proper planes like Hurricanes and Spitfires.

NOTE HUMOUR ALERT, THIS IS A JOKE NOT THE START OF WW3



Will

I've not seen it, but it sounds funny.

Will

I think I've made this point before, but here goes again. What stood the Spit apart from the Hurricane in the long run was the fact that the Spitfire had development potential and the Hurricane was essentially not upgadeable beyond the fitting of an all metal wing and better weapons.
After 1941 when the RAF went on the offencive the Hurricane began to adopt a new roll of fighter bomber/ground attack and in North Africa and the Pacific theater it excelled in this roll untill the end of the war. The Spit went on to become Britains main frount line fighter and stayed in production beyond the end of WW2. The Spit was never able to truly take on the ground attack roll and it's short range was it's biggest shortcomming, but as an out and out dogfighter it was perhapse without equal.

brensec thats a great little show you got going on at the bottom of you post...

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LOL I love it ATI. Who said Germans have no sense of humour? Oops..........! My turn to duck & run away.


PS. On the subject of Hurricane vs Spitfire. The Hurricane was a traditional development of earlier designs by the same design team. You can clearly see its lineage from the classic Sidney Camm biplanes like the Hawker Fury. It was not developed further as such but by the same process the company produced a long line of successful fighters. These include the Typhoon, Tempest & fantastic Sea Fury, itself influenced by the Fw 190. The beautiful Sea Hawk was basically the jet version of the Sea Fury. Add swept wings & you get the Hunter & so on. The ultimate achievement of the Camm team was & is the amazing Harrier.

The Spitfire was a brillliant one-off work of genius, a revolutionary design no doubt influenced by the He 70. The basic design was capable of continuous development throughout WWII but this had to reach a peak at some point. This came at the end of hostilities at the time when jets were taking over. Its successor, the Spiteful, did not have the handling qualities of the Spit & its jet version, the Attacker was a failure. As I mentioned in another thread, Supermarine never repeated their success with jets.

ATI err two things;
1)Aren't you meant to be in Holland drowning yourself or sailing or somesuch (re-enactment of the Bismark?)? Not doing a tour in your Panzer
2)Err didn't your side end up being the runner-up?
I'm off to practice my Basil Fawlty walk and find some marmalade to put on ATIs house.
Oh and your first stunt lesson will be conducted in a Spitfire, just to teach you some respect young man

Ozzy 8)

PS. Do you really think just a helmet and Reeboks is enough to save you from my terrible wrath?

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I mentioned it once, but I think I got away with it

You started it!
No we didn't!
Yes you did, you invaded Poland!!!!

Actually if any of you have the most recently release videos of Fawlty Towers you'll find there are snippets of an interview with John Cleese in between episodes, and he is talking about 'The Germans' in one and says that whilst in a hotel in Germany one morning the concierge yelled out "Hey Mr. Cleese, don't mention ze var!"

Remind me to address your uncle as SIR!
I don't know of any purpose built 109 models for 2k2, I know of some 190s however. And they would give my beloved MkV a whipping, so I'd better go polish my IX

Mark

PS. Respect is what you'll be giving me lots of after your flying lesson my dear boy

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Whitey pal, no one ever said the the Defiant and Blenheim won the BoB. All I said was the everyone forgets about the other types that contributed, however small that contribution may have been, to the struggle in the Summer of 1940. Everytime you see one of those doccos about the BoB they talk about Spits V's 109s and Hurricanes V's Heinkels and never, ever talk about the Blenheim or Defiant. The men who flew those planes deserve just as much credit and respect as those that Flew the Spits and Hurricanes.

Ozzy would LOVE the last gasp of the biplanes - Hawker Harts against the Italians in East Africa!  Gladiators in Iraq!

touche' ...................but.........your forgetting the A-26, the P-47(noted;mentioned earlier) the Corsair and a few others.
Don't forget the power and durability of the R-2800 engine. I
can't believe none of you guys over there in "Engulund" have mentioned the Mosquito!  8)

Ah the Wooden Wonder, something so backwardly radical that it worked wonders, and the Air Ministry didn't believe them, just proves you can never trust pencil necks!
A bomber that became a fighter! And a damn fine one at that! Now that is radical. Ah the purr of those twin Merlins. Sweet music too my ears.
Is it true that someone over on the other side of the Pond has nearly finished restoring one to flying condition?

Ozzy 8)

I beleive that Kermit Weeks had a Mossie in flying condition as late as 1990, in his Miami facilities.  Sadly, many of the flying and non-flying exhibits were destroyed during one of the hurricanes .. (Andrew?)



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I think the only problem with restoring a Mossie (if one could be found) or even building one from scratch would be the very reason for its success. The fact that it's made of wood using unusual construction methods. Having seen the quality of the work carried out by the outfits Stateside, I have no doubt that if anyone could do it , they could. I visited Tom Reilly's place in Kissimmee on my last trip & was astounded by what he showed me. http://www.warbirdmuseum.com/
I still live in the hopes of seeing one in flying condition again one fine day.

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A guy in Canada has a Mosquito in rebuild but it's a project without a time limit. Funds are limited and parts are rare, but it is comming along.
Kermit Weeks brought an airworthy Mossie from the UK but it suffered from delamination problems and is now grounded. Don't know about it being restored but I'm sure if MR. Weeks thinks it can be done he will do it.
The Fighter Collection has a Mosquito that is a possible airworthy project and it has now been shipped out for restoration.
The 262 replica had an undercarrige faliure shortly after landing and is now in rebuild. There will be two more 262's another two seater and a lone single seater. Don't think they plan to build any more unless they get more orders.
There are a number of FW 190 replicas also being built. One of my favorite WW2 Warbirds, I'd love to see the real thing, but it would be nice to see one of these new builds at next years Flying Legends.

GERMAN BEER!!!!!!

bah Get thy some good ol' english bitter doon tha' neck lad

That is way beyond Wendy House in the cool stakes. What a terrible waste, she looks awful the poor thing.
Let us hope she returns to the skys soon.

Ozzy

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I think the photos that are on the page that my link goes directly to, were taken some time ago (1991). I'm sure things are much further advanced now.

I'm going to have a bit of a look throught the site shortly, and I 'll see if I can find out exactly where they are up to.

Although, the fact that they are asking for donations does dot auger well.

Seeing as many of us are WWII warbird buffs, and the Mozzie seems to be a dying, if not dead, plane in terms of airworthy examples, would it be untoward for me to suggest that we (ie SimV community) explore the possibility of making a donation to this organisation. Maybe a collection from those who would like to chuck in a dollar (or two). Who knows, we may even get a "SimV" decal on the plane...........lol.
(Don't know how Pete would feel about such a venture. He, of course would have to have no problem with it and it would have to be done "properly").

Any ideas..................................Pete? 

Hi Brensec. I think you have to be realistic. I'm sure we all have different ideas on which specific type would be worthy of our support. I would dearly love to see the Vulcan fly again but doubt this will ever happen. The funds set up to support these projects all too often run into financial difficulties. Sometimes, through no fault of the organisers, the contributions so willingly given for restoration can end up being used for other purposes.

The Mosquito suffers from the same problems as all vintage wooden aircraft. Due to the glues & techniques used in their construction the structure delaminates, even in the best storage conditions. (Wooden airframes were never ideal & don't last long in humid climates.) This means stripping the whole airframe down for close inspection & restoration using new glues & adhesives & new wood where applicable. It would often be quicker (& less expensive) to remanufacture the whole thing from scratch. The Aussie project is very creditable but I'm not sure it will ever fly. Finding one in good enough condition to restore to flying condition would be extremely difficult. The last airworthy example in Europe, funded & operated by BAe, sadly crashed at Barton Aerodrome in 1996.

I'm not sure how current this info is. Posted on the RAF website. http://www.raf.mod.uk/history/mosquito4.html
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Keep us posted Brensec. I for one would be interested. Heck I'd even offer to buy it off them if I win the Lottery this weekend

Ozzy

Poor Herman. One thing I will give, he always seemed to give credit where it was due. I wonder if he "knew the jig was up" when he saw the Mozzies over Berlin............lol

I didn't know Holden were involved in this. (Traditional Australian car manufacturer - I've own several Holdens - Full name is General Motors Holden or GMH - they were and still are partly owned by GM).

Well..........I got an answer from the MAAA already. They sent me their latest Newsletter (April 2003).
It has a pile of info in it and some pics of the work that's going on. (It's in 'Acrobat format' so I can't copy the pics...............bummer)
They are getting technical support from the RAAF. The two Merlins are rebuilt and they're working on the props. Fuselage and bulkhead work is progressing (slowly). Wheels and undercarriage is yet to be started. There's also a pic that shows what looks like the two engine nacelles finished and painted. No mention in this newsletter about the wing though.
They are calling for Volunteers to help out doing anything that they are capable of doing. So if you're inclined. you can go to the warehouse and help rebuild the "Aussie Mossie" (as it's being called).
It's in Melbourne and I'm in Sydney (550 miles), so too far for me, but anyone in Melbourne can pop down. The Newsletter says all you have to do is arrive and they put a tool in your hand and put you to work. 

I think so, but its a v.long time since I saw it.

Ozzy

Hmm possibly. Pity, it would have been among the greatest quotes of the 20th century, along with Britains great pre-war joke N.Chamberlains "Peace in our time" one!!!

Ozzy

The great joy of hindsight Brensec, telling people how naive they were...... Alas for the folly of man.

Ozzy