Simviation Forum - ILS issues

Jul 7^th, 2003 at 11:58pm

ReverseThrust Offline
Colonel
Bizjet Spotter
Centennial Airport, Colorado

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???

HELP

???
I have read the recent posts on this topic and have been attempting to actually make a good landing, rather than my old method of crash and push esc.

I just finished an unsucessful approach to Heathrow and had the ILS requency in Nav 1, was in NAV mode, activated the APR function when I entered the green triangle, had the correct ILS heading, and turned off the ALT and HD hold functions.

I was getting ready to turn off the autopilot and flare the ac myself, but the thing starts descending too fast and crashes about 400 ft before the runway.

Ideas!?? This Darn THING...

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Reply #1 - Jul 8^th, 2003 at 1:34am

VASX2003 Offline
Colonel

Posts: 24

LOL. I am glad I am not the only one who was having problems with ILS, but I have managed to break the habit of dropping like a rock.

I actually find that ILS is like an art some times more than it can be a skill.

First of all, are you lowering your flaps? Lowering your flaps creates drag and decreases your chance of stalling in low speeds and during flaring. When you flare, semantincally speaking, remember that you are obviously pitching the plane up and when you do that, you slow the plane down as pitch controls speed. As soon as your plane slows down from flaring, you increase your chances of stalling. Lowering your flaps can prevent stalling about 90%.

Also, try flaring at 100 ft instead of 400. You said that you flare at 400ft, but 400 feet is really too high to flare in my opinion.

I hope this helps. My problem is lining up with the runway on APR in autopilot. I try LVL sometimes and it works.

Bruce Chambers&&Webmaster Virtual Airline Stock Exchange with currently 160+ VAs listed for stock trade&&

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Reply #2 - Jul 8^th, 2003 at 1:43am

hiflyphil Offline
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Is that UFO bugging me
again.
England

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Theres just too much that can go wrong when switching of the autopilot, for instance when flying my 747 yesterday, rather that head for the ground it tried to loop the loop. Shocked

your power and trim settings will almost certainly be set different to the autopilot.

Take my advice practice lining up and descending yourself, at least then you've only yourself to blame if theres a dent in the runway. Tongue

and its more fun.

Phil

Tower : Flight 2-0-9er, you're cleared for take off.&&Oever : Roger!&&Murdock : Huh?&&Tower : L.A. departure frequency 1-2-3 point 9er.&&Oever : Roger!&&Murdock : Huh?&&: Re-quest Vector, over!&&Oever : What?&&Tower : 2-0-9er clear for vector 2-3-4.&&Murdock : We have clearance Clarence.&&Oever : Roger, Roger. What's our Vector Victor?&&Oever : That's Clarence Oever! Oever.

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Reply #3 - Jul 8^th, 2003 at 1:47am

VASX2003 Offline
Colonel

Posts: 24

Yes, Phil is right. You have to practice practice practice. I am getting better at landing with ILS, but have a long way to go.

Phil, please respond to my other post on how strangely I land with ILS. It works for me, but some people may disagree with me. I need help with ILS myself, but let's see what you think of my method for lining up with the runway. Tongue

Bruce Chambers&&Webmaster Virtual Airline Stock Exchange with currently 160+ VAs listed for stock trade&&

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Reply #4 - Jul 8^th, 2003 at 8:28am

WebbPA Ex Member
I Like Flight Simulation!

I have a couple of general comments that might help:

1. In addition to the ILS frequency in the NAV1 radio you must have the runway heading in your NAV course heading. LOOK IT UP. Runway 9 is not necessaruly 90 degrees - it can be anywhere from 85-95 degrees.

2. When heading towards the "green triangle" on NAV HOLD and ATL HOLD you only have to turn APR HOLD on. It will automatically take over your direction and altitude and it will turn off the other holds by itself.

3. You must be BELOW the glideslope to intercept it. If the glideslope indicator is not above th horizon you won't intercept it.

4. Speed is up to you. ILS will not change your speed . As VASX said you should have your flaps and landing gear extended, and be at or slightly above approach speed before you even get here.

Some ILS's take me right to the runway and others crash me into the ground 400 yards/meters short. I guess that's the realism factor. Maybe it's just personal taste but I turn off the autopilot about a mile out, at which time I should be lined up with the runway and just have to control speed and descent.

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Reply #5 - Jul 8^th, 2003 at 8:59am

darkhorse Offline
Colonel
Is anybody in here?

Posts: 137

Quote:

2. When heading towards the "green triangle" on NAV HOLD and ATL HOLD you only have to turn APR HOLD on. It will automatically take over your direction and altitude and it will turn off the other holds by itself.

For me the APR hold does not turn off the other holds. If I have the APR hold active, the ALT and heading holds will still overide it and can actually have all of them on at the same time. As for the APR hold diving you to the ground, make sure that the localizer and glide slopes have become active. I've noticed that if you rely on the APR hold before the localizer and glide slope needles start to move, then the plane almost always flies in a straight line to the ground instead of correcting ALT and HDG like it should.

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Reply #6 - Jul 8^th, 2003 at 9:31am

hikariken Offline
Colonel
I wich I could be a bird

Posts: 108

ok for ils landing when you turn off the Ap make sure you get staoight ahead becaus ometimes he has got some funy trim ???

after you will fly with the power of the engin and you will movethe stick so you will hae always th same speed (very imortant)

and at last turn off the AP at 500feet altitude because if you dont do the aP does not pull the stick to make you lad softly he will crach you nose on th erunwy when it is not before the runways

@darkhorse good image. (tenkuu no escaflowne o the visions of escaflowne)

If dumb could fly, sky will be green (french air force proverbs)

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Reply #7 - Jul 8^th, 2003 at 10:03am

ReverseThrust Offline
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Bizjet Spotter
Centennial Airport, Colorado

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Thanks- I'll go fly and see if that helps.
Also- What is the purpose of the NAV hold selector/switch and the Backcourse hold switch??

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Reply #8 - Jul 8^th, 2003 at 4:28pm

Big_Al Offline
Colonel
Wishing i had good eyesight
to fly...

Posts: 300

I'm trying to figure out how to turn off the AP after I land using ILS. It seems like my throttle gets stuck at a certain point, I have it at zero throttle and turn off the AP, but the airplanes throttle doesn't go to 0 at all.

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Reply #9 - Jul 8^th, 2003 at 5:43pm

ReverseThrust Offline
Colonel
Bizjet Spotter
Centennial Airport, Colorado

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Big Al- You need to turn off the AutoThrottle. This switch is marked A/T and sometimes involves 2 switches, sometimes not. But flip this off and the throttle should *I think* follow your commands.

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Reply #10 - Jul 8^th, 2003 at 6:26pm

KD_VB_FS Offline
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'Open Source' Flight Simulator?!!
Damascus, Syrian Arab Republic

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Quote:

4. Speed is up to you. ILS will not change your speed . As VASX said you should have your flaps and landing gear extended, and be at or slightly above approach speed before you even get here.

That's right ! and my advice is to always keep the speed under 180 KTS when on final approach and surely not below 130 KTS and everything will be fine!.

NOTE: The speeds mentioned above works for "JET" aircrafts ONLY!.

Happy landings!! Wink

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