Simviation Forum - What the hell is this?

Jul 3^rd, 2003 at 6:48pm

Tequila Sunrise Offline
Colonel
Nunquam non paratus
Glasgow Scotland

Gender:
Posts: 4149

not the F-14 but the aircraft parked on deck behind it ??? ???

If someone with multiple personality disorder threatens suicide, is it a hostage situation?

Thou shalt maintain thine airspeed lest the ground shalt rise up and smite thee

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #1 - Jul 3^rd, 2003 at 7:01pm

Crumbso Offline
Ground Hog

Posts:

I'd say a goshawk if it weren't for that wierd tail.

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #2 - Jul 3^rd, 2003 at 7:58pm

Iroquois Offline
Colonel
Happy Halloween
Ontario Canada

Gender:
Posts: 3244

Is it a Panther? Looks like one because the Panther has a single engine (photo looks like it does) and has a similar tail.

I only pretend to know what I'm talking about. Heck, that's what lawyers, car mechanics, and IT professionals do everyday. Wink

&&The Rig: &&AMD Athlon XP2000+ Palomino, ECS K7S5A 3.1, 1GB PC2700 DDR, Geforce FX5200 128mb, SB Live Platinum, 16xDVD, 16x10x40x CDRW, 40/60gb 7200rpm HDD, 325w Power, Windows XP Home SP1, Directx 9.0c with 66.81 Beta gfx drivers

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #3 - Jul 3^rd, 2003 at 8:11pm

Blade Offline
Colonel
Annapolis, MD

Gender:
Posts: 2477

Its a Panther. I think the Navy used them as trainers after the Korean War.

&&&&Dell 4550&&P4 2.53Ghz &&512MB DDR SDRAM&&GeForceFX 5900 129MB&&60GB HD @ 7200RPM &&PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #4 - Jul 3^rd, 2003 at 10:56pm

Felix/FFDS Offline
Admin
FINALLY an official Granddad!
Orlando, FL

Gender:
Posts: 1000000627

I'd guess (70% confidence factor) T-2 Buckeyes.

Goshawks weren't even started to be developed until 1978, and first flight of a BAe Hawk was in August '74. Date on the newspaper is March...

Felix/FFDS

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #5 - Jul 3^rd, 2003 at 11:43pm

denishc Offline
Colonel
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Posts: 1018

They might be the navalized version of the Lockheed T-33, I believe they were called "SeaStars".

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #6 - Jul 4^th, 2003 at 11:15am

Tequila Sunrise Offline
Colonel
Nunquam non paratus
Glasgow Scotland

Gender:
Posts: 4149

thought it might have been a seastar, but I've never seen one before, also thought it might have been a Cougar but the rear seat isn't raised at all Tongue

If someone with multiple personality disorder threatens suicide, is it a hostage situation?

Thou shalt maintain thine airspeed lest the ground shalt rise up and smite thee

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #7 - Jul 4^th, 2003 at 11:35am

Felix/FFDS Offline
Admin
FINALLY an official Granddad!
Orlando, FL

Gender:
Posts: 1000000627

My nod on the T-2 over the TV-1/Seastar is the canopy shape. ... The Seastar had a bubble single piece canopy, vs the T-2's framed double canopy ... What's also throwing me off is the apparent darker color scheme of the planes.

Felix/FFDS

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #8 - Jul 4^th, 2003 at 12:01pm

Ivan Offline
Colonel
No, I'm NOT Russian, I
only like Russian aircraft
The netherlands

Gender:
Posts: 6058

buckeye has more pronounced underbelly engines IE: it's sitting on them

Russian planes: IL-76 (all standard length ones), Tu-154 and Il-62, Tu-134 and An-24RV&&&&AI flightplans and repaints can be found here

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #9 - Jul 4^th, 2003 at 12:56pm

Felix/FFDS Offline
Admin
FINALLY an official Granddad!
Orlando, FL

Gender:
Posts: 1000000627

I tend to agree with you, although it depends on the viewing angle at times...

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/t-2-147442.jpg

What looks like the engine exhaust at the rear seems to me to be one of the deck crew blurred in the background.... That's why I'm not 100% confident... the empennage shape also appears to show a mid-mouinted horizontal stabilizer...

Quote:

buckeye has more pronounced underbelly engines IE: it's sitting on them

Felix/FFDS

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #10 - Jul 4^th, 2003 at 1:36pm

Crumbso Offline
Ground Hog

Posts:

I think you may be right. In my opinion it is a buckeye.

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #11 - Jul 4^th, 2003 at 1:58pm

Oso Ex Member

That reminds me of an odd incedent that happened in the early 70's.

There was a photographer (probably a civvie) on one of the old carriers (Midway? Forest Fire? Can't remember which). Anyway, he was taking pictures of the jets being shot from the cat and got one of those Darwin ideas.

He got down onto the nets just under the end of the launch deck so he could get a shot real close of the belly of a jet as it launched.

If you watch, the tail of the jets drops down as she comes off the deck.

They recovered the camera and amazingly, got some great shots.

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #12 - Jul 4^th, 2003 at 4:49pm

Tequila Sunrise Offline
Colonel
Nunquam non paratus
Glasgow Scotland

Gender:
Posts: 4149

LMAO, what a dumbass

If someone with multiple personality disorder threatens suicide, is it a hostage situation?

Thou shalt maintain thine airspeed lest the ground shalt rise up and smite thee

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #13 - Jul 5^th, 2003 at 12:56am

denishc Offline
Colonel
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Posts: 1018

I have to disagree with those who say the aircraft in the background are North American T-2 Buckeyes.
The tail fillet on the Buckeye is angluar and straight while the tail fillet on the SeaStar is rounded and curved. The aircraft in the photo clearly have a curved tail fillet. That would make the them SeaStars.
Also what looks like canopy framing between the front and rear seats is probably the front seat's back.

These aircraft probably belong to a Navy composite squadron, that would explain their dark color scheme. Its hard to believe the US Navy was still flying SeaStars as late as 1974! But in a composite squadron it may have been possible.

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #14 - Jul 5^th, 2003 at 2:49am

Hagar Offline
Colonel
My Spitfire Girl
Costa Geriatrica

Posts: 33159

I've studied that photo long & hard. The shape of the fin (vertical stab) & rudder fooled me for a long time. I then realised that the rudder & top of the fin are a different colour (white or yellow) to the rest of the aircraft. I've come to the conclusion that Orenda & Blade are on the right track. Here's a photo of the F9F-8T/TF-9J Cougar with an enhanced & mirrored blowup of the original photo below it.

According to some sources the TF-9J was officially retired from USN service in February 1974. I'm not sure how accurate this information is. http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/f9_13.html
Quote:

The two-seat TF-9J continued to serve with the Navy long after its single-seat relatives had been retired to the boneyards. The last squadron to use the TF-9J was VT-4, which finally relinquished its last TF-9J in February 1974

Founder & Sole Member - Grumpy's Over the Hill Club for Veteran Virtual Aviators
Member of the Fox Four Group

Need help? Try Grumpy's Lair

My photo gallery

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #15 - Jul 5^th, 2003 at 8:23am

Felix/FFDS Offline
Admin
FINALLY an official Granddad!
Orlando, FL

Gender:
Posts: 1000000627

In defense of the T-2 buckeye - I offer the dorsal "outline" ... the TF9'ss canopy has a pronounced "bulge" down to the dorsal "line" .. the T-2's dorsal outline is a smooth transition.....

Felix/FFDS

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #16 - Jul 5^th, 2003 at 10:03am

Hagar Offline
Colonel
My Spitfire Girl
Costa Geriatrica

Posts: 33159

Quote:

In defense of the T-2 buckeye - I offer the dorsal "outline" ... the TF9'ss canopy has a pronounced "bulge" down to the dorsal "line" .. the T-2's dorsal outline is a smooth transition.....

We'll have to agree to disagree on that. I usually bow to your superior knowledge but this time I'm 99% certain it's the TF-9J. The tail shape still bothers me slightly.
Compare the 2 pics I posted earlier. The fuselage shape, gear positions & ground angle are identical in both, allowing for the slightly different viewpoints. The fin shape of the aircraft in the newpaper cutting is unfortunately indistinct & difficult to make out. Due to the poor quality & different colours it merges into the sky background. It does have a nicely shaped dorsal fillet which blends perfectly into the fin. The T-2's fuselage profile is completely different - fat with a pointy nose. The tail on the Buckeye has a distinctly angular fin/dorsal fillet joint. I rest my case & leave it for others with more knowledge of USN types to judge. Roll Eyes

T-2 Buckeye

Mystery plane ???

TF-9J Cougar

Founder & Sole Member - Grumpy's Over the Hill Club for Veteran Virtual Aviators
Member of the Fox Four Group

Need help? Try Grumpy's Lair

My photo gallery

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #17 - Jul 5^th, 2003 at 10:35am

Felix/FFDS Offline
Admin
FINALLY an official Granddad!
Orlando, FL

Gender:
Posts: 1000000627

Look at the nose gear in relation to the front cockpit...

The TF9's gear is in line with the front pilot's seat.
The T-2's is forward of the pilot seat practically in line with the forward edge of the canopy....

The mystery plane's forward landing gear seems to be in line with the forward edge of the canopy.

Felix/FFDS

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #18 - Jul 5^th, 2003 at 10:43am

Hagar Offline
Colonel
My Spitfire Girl
Costa Geriatrica

Posts: 33159

Quote:

Look at the nose gear in relation to the front cockpit...

The TF9's gear is in line with the front pilot's seat.
The T-2's is forward of the pilot seat practically in line with the forward edge of the canopy....

The mystery plane's forward landing gear seems to be in line with the forward edge of the canopy.

Your eyesight must be a lot better than mine. I find it almost impossible to make out the nose gear at all. Tongue

I think the quality of that pic is so bad you can make it fit whatever profile you wish.

PS. The rear fuselage is the giveaway for me. The Buckeye has a tapered rear end. The tail pipes of the engines are just behind the wing trailing edge. Pity that deckhand is in the way.

Founder & Sole Member - Grumpy's Over the Hill Club for Veteran Virtual Aviators
Member of the Fox Four Group

Need help? Try Grumpy's Lair

My photo gallery

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #19 - Jul 5^th, 2003 at 10:58am

Smoke2much Offline
Colonel
The Unrepentant Heretic
Sittingbourne, Kent,

Posts: 3879

I found this and I thought of you guys!!!

I think It's the T-2C Buckeye. Blurred and from a distance the angular Tail fin looks curved.

Will

Who switched the lights off? I can't see a thing....... Hold on, my eyes were closed. Oops, my bad...............&&

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #20 - Jul 5^th, 2003 at 11:25am

Hagar Offline
Colonel
My Spitfire Girl
Costa Geriatrica

Posts: 33159

Thanks Will. That just goes to make me even more certain. The belly on that pregnant T-2 is almost scraping the ground. Now take another look at the original pic. There's a good 3 foot ground clearance. You can see right under it. No way is that the same tail either. Wink

Founder & Sole Member - Grumpy's Over the Hill Club for Veteran Virtual Aviators
Member of the Fox Four Group

Need help? Try Grumpy's Lair

My photo gallery

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #21 - Jul 5^th, 2003 at 11:30am

Smoke2much Offline
Colonel
The Unrepentant Heretic
Sittingbourne, Kent,

Posts: 3879

Yes mate you are right about the belly. I was fixating on the tail and canopy LOL.

Feeling foolish here............

Will

Who switched the lights off? I can't see a thing....... Hold on, my eyes were closed. Oops, my bad...............&&

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #22 - Jul 5^th, 2003 at 11:32am

Felix/FFDS Offline
Admin
FINALLY an official Granddad!
Orlando, FL

Gender:
Posts: 1000000627

Kissimmee warbird restoration museum has a TF-9 - and even considering deflated tires there's not even a 12-inch clearance between the belly and the deck ....

Quote:

Thanks Will. That just goes to make me even more certain. The belly on that pregnant T-2 is almost scraping the ground. Now take another look at the original pic. There's a good 3 foot ground clearance. You can see right under it. No way is that the same tail either. Wink

Felix/FFDS

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #23 - Jul 5^th, 2003 at 11:37am

Hagar Offline
Colonel
My Spitfire Girl
Costa Geriatrica

Posts: 33159

Quote:

Kissimmee warbird restoration museum has a TF-9 - and even considering deflated tires there's not even a 12-inch clearance between the belly and the deck ....

That thought had also occurred to me. So what the heck is it.............? ???

Founder & Sole Member - Grumpy's Over the Hill Club for Veteran Virtual Aviators
Member of the Fox Four Group

Need help? Try Grumpy's Lair

My photo gallery

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #24 - Jul 5^th, 2003 at 11:41am

Felix/FFDS Offline
Admin
FINALLY an official Granddad!
Orlando, FL

Gender:
Posts: 1000000627

L-39 Albatross being covertly spirited away from some East European rendezvous?

Quote:

That thought had also occurred to me. So what the heck is it.............? ???

Felix/FFDS

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #25 - Jul 5^th, 2003 at 11:59am

Smoke2much Offline
Colonel
The Unrepentant Heretic
Sittingbourne, Kent,

Posts: 3879

I'm begining to agree Felix, It does look vaguely like that (Albatros). There is also a similarity to the Bae Hawk.

Will

Who switched the lights off? I can't see a thing....... Hold on, my eyes were closed. Oops, my bad...............&&

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #26 - Jul 5^th, 2003 at 12:00pm

Hagar Offline
Colonel
My Spitfire Girl
Costa Geriatrica

Posts: 33159

Quote:

L-39 Albatross being covertly spirited away from some East European rendezvous?

TF-9J hanging from a skyhook? T-2C with the engines removed & a modified fin? I give up. LOL

Founder & Sole Member - Grumpy's Over the Hill Club for Veteran Virtual Aviators
Member of the Fox Four Group

Need help? Try Grumpy's Lair

My photo gallery

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #27 - Jul 6^th, 2003 at 12:48am

denishc Offline
Colonel
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Posts: 1018

Gentlemen, I'm going to have to stick by my guns and say the aircraft in question is a Lockheed T-1A SeaStar.
Felix has a point about the forward landing gear. If you look at the photo of the aircraft in question there is no gear directly under the cockpit, that would eleminate the TF-9. There is no gear directly under the windshield of the canopy, that would eleminate the T-2 Buckeye. In fact the forward gear appears to be well forward of the canopy, about where the crease in the photo is.
Also the rear decking behind the back seat and spine of the aircraft in question is much too tall to be that of a TF-9.
One thing for sure the aircraft is not a T-2 Buckeye. The aircraft's lines are much too smooth and flowing to be that of the angular Buckeye.

For a good profile view of a Lockheed SeaStar check out this site: "mitglied.lycos.de/FlugzeugArchiv/db/ULT1_T-1A.htm"

There's also a snapshot that comes with the profile view and that photo clearly shows the front landing gear well forword of the canopy.

P.S. Well Crazy this has become quite the argument...hope your happy now!!

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #28 - Jul 6^th, 2003 at 1:50am

Hogans_Alley Offline
Colonel
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Posts: 90

8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

The date on the newspaper was March 2, 1974. I was stationed aboard the USS Essex (CVA-9) in 1956 whereby we had F9F Cougars, F8F Panthers, F2H Banshees, AD Skyraiders and the A3D Skywarriors. Those planes went out with the dinasaurs by the early 60's. The insignia on the tail of the F14 indicated it belonged to a training squadron. The planes in the background looked to me like a couple of prop jobs, much like the T33s which were extensively used for carrier quals. I will even surmise to say that the carrier in the picture was the old USS Princeton operating out of Pensacola, Fla.

Hogans Alley

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #29 - Jul 6^th, 2003 at 1:48pm

Tequila Sunrise Offline
Colonel
Nunquam non paratus
Glasgow Scotland

Gender:
Posts: 4149

my moneys definatly on the Sea-Star now, thanks for the link Denishc, and yes I'm happy Grin

If someone with multiple personality disorder threatens suicide, is it a hostage situation?

Thou shalt maintain thine airspeed lest the ground shalt rise up and smite thee

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #30 - Jul 6^th, 2003 at 6:56pm