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Great Lakes project (Read 1133 times)

Sep 13^th, 2012 at 7:56pm

wahubna Offline
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WMU Bronco
Michigan

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Well, its that time in my schooling where I need to get a senior design idea. Originally I was going to do some work on my design (the XS1) but now it looks like it will be structural analysis of the Great Lakes. Its pretty important for my employer for a variety of reasons suffice to say, but I have encountered some missing and frankly odd bits in the old analysis from '73 done by Herb Rawdon (designer of the Travel Air Mystery Ship).

He uses this mysterious "Great Lakes Engineering Report #4" which seems to have been lost with time. Then he refers to a Vdes speed which is a V-speed I have never heard of. To top it off, he keeps referring to a "(0%) M.S." M.S. being Margin of Safety. What a 0% MS is supposed to mean is beyond me other than no margin of safety which just does not make a lick of sense...in short, working on old plane designs stirs up a whole new set of issues!

Any ideas what those things mean?

« Last Edit: Sep 14^th, 2012 at 3:40pm by wahubna »

‎"At that time [1909] the chief engineer was almost always the chief test pilot as well. That had the fortunate result of eliminating poor engineering early in aviation."- Igor Sikorsky

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Reply #1 - Sep 14^th, 2012 at 7:14am

Flying Trucker Offline
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Hi Adam...

Here is an interesting Link....

http://81.70.242.211/eab1/manual/Magazine/AIAA%20Journal%20of%20Aircraft/1992/2/...

Not sure if that is of any help or not...

Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug

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Reply #2 - Sep 15^th, 2012 at 8:18pm

wahubna Offline
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WMU Bronco
Michigan

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Posts: 1064

Flying Trucker wrote on Sep 14^th, 2012 at 7:14am:

Hi Adam...

Here is an interesting Link....

http://81.70.242.211/eab1/manual/Magazine/AIAA%20Journal%20of%20Aircraft/1992/2/...

Not sure if that is of any help or not...

Doug, I cannot load it for some reason. It keeps killing my browser regardless of which one I am using. Is there another way to view it? Maybe another site or something?
If it is a document you can email it too me. PM me and Ill send you my student email address.

‎"At that time [1909] the chief engineer was almost always the chief test pilot as well. That had the fortunate result of eliminating poor engineering early in aviation."- Igor Sikorsky

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Reply #3 - Sep 16^th, 2012 at 1:38pm

Flying Trucker Offline
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Will have another look at it Adam and see what I can do... Wink

Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug

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Reply #4 - Sep 16^th, 2012 at 1:40pm

Flying Trucker Offline
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HMMM....now I am having problems getting it Adam...will try another search for you later... Wink

We are off to a fly-in at a local bugsmasher field again...

Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug

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Reply #5 - Sep 16^th, 2012 at 2:50pm

Flying Trucker Offline
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An Old Retired Rocking
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Hi Adam...

I typed in "vdes speed aircraft" and found several Links there that might help.

I can't access it any other way right now but will try a few other searches when we get home...

Cheers...Doug

Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug

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Reply #6 - Sep 17^th, 2012 at 10:05am

dave3cu Offline
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3CU, Northern Wisconsin, USA

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Adam,

Try right-click>Save Target As....

I was able to download the pdf though the speed is very slow, <3.0KB/sec. Maybe your browsers are timing out??

Dave

At that time [1909] the chief engineer was almost always the chief test pilot as well. That had the fortunate result of eliminating poor engineering early in aviation. Igor Sikorsky

I intend to live forever....so far, so good. Steven Wright

You know....you can just rip up a to-do list.

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Reply #7 - Sep 17^th, 2012 at 10:25am

wahubna Offline
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WMU Bronco
Michigan

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Posts: 1064

dave3cu wrote on Sep 17^th, 2012 at 10:05am:

Adam,

Try right-click>Save Target As....

I was able to download the pdf though the speed is very slow, <3.0KB/sec. Maybe your browsers are timing out??

Dave

I was able to just click it today Shocked

Well at any rate, it mentions Vdes is 'design control speed'. Later on it puts in an airspeed for it, however that does not make sense as the value given in the report is 11.5mph. There are v-speeds that refer to the minimum speed the flight controls become effective although today they are not called 'Vdes'. So I am going to assume for now that this 'Vdes' is/was another way to refer to the minimum speed for flight controls to work.

‎"At that time [1909] the chief engineer was almost always the chief test pilot as well. That had the fortunate result of eliminating poor engineering early in aviation."- Igor Sikorsky

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