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› Reporting Reg Breaks
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Reporting Reg Breaks (Read 743 times)
Nov 22
nd
, 2011 at 3:51pm
skoker
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Colonel
Jordan never wore his
safety goggles...
1G3
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We had a debate today in my class because we were wondering if a student pilot were to fly into the bottom edge of a cloud would it require notifying the FAA? We came up with the example if a student misjudged the weather on his solo and took off to go fly the pattern, but as he was flying the clouds lowered forcing him to fly through the bottom of one what would happen and would any action be needed? We got on the topic because it happened to a kid yesterday.
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Reply #1 -
Nov 23
rd
, 2011 at 8:43am
beaky
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Newark, NJ USA
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Personally, I'd keep my mouth shut, and
never do it again.
Should I find myself, in the future, unable to maintain published TPA due to clouds, rather than do something idiotic like fly into IMC in order to slavishly maintain TPA, I'd just fly a lower pattern. Not ideal, but a lot safer than trying to continue
in clouds
!! Even a current and proficient instrument pilot would have a hard time hand-flying a small rectangular pattern at 800-1000 AGL in IMC... this is definitely not an exercise for beginners!!
I'd also consider finding a new instructor... why was a student signed off for local solo pattern work when the ceiling was at or near VFR minimums? And why was this student not taught to maintain VMC in the event that the ceiling lowered below the desired altitude?
The FAA would most definitely like to hear about this one, no debate there... the student busted a number of FARs concerning general safety and VFR minimum requirements. The instructor would also have a lot of explaining to do... any sensible pilot can tell you that when the ceiling was high but is getting lower, it's not magically going to stop lowering when it reaches 1000 AGL. It's probably going to get worse before it gets better. The instructor had only to look at the forecast, or perhaps just look at the sky, and say "not today", or "let's go together, so I can show you what to do if the ceiling forces us below TPA."
But any action they take will not fix the problem there... there's a serious lack of common sense.
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Reply #2 -
Nov 23
rd
, 2011 at 11:05am
Rocket_Bird
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Canada
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I'm not too sure about the reporting rules for the FAA (despite the fact that I'm currently in the border with a small aircraft...), but I would imagine that a little common sense would apply.
If that student was flying in controlled airspace with traffic in the area, and the student didn't tell anybody about it, then probably yes. Something like that probably should be reported.
But if it was at an uncontrolled airport, and the student did what he could to remain clear of cloud (and hopefully, with the intent to land as soon as it happened), then I would imagine that even if you do report it, the FAA is probably just going to be like "meh."
Flying through a cloud isn't so much of a big deal if it was forced on the pilot, so long that the necessary precautions were taken to remedy the problem (and so long as the plane doesn't crash!). Obviously, VFR requires either to be clear of cloud or to be so many feet above, below, and to the sides of it, but let's face it, weather can change in an instant, and even the most up-to-date forecasts can be wrong. Skirting through the bottom of a cloud isn't the end of the world, and I'm sure most VFR private pilots with a fair amount of hours on their belt have flown through at least a cloud or two. It isn't VFR, but there is always the odd chance it could happen.
If the student continued to fly through such conditions, it's probably best that he/she get a good "briefing" on what is expected. Obviously, the instructors should always keep an eye on the safety of their students, so it's more of an internal concern than an FAA concern I would imagine.
Unless the student was intentionally trying to break a rule (VFR, or published TPAs, or whatever), I doubt reporting such incidences would be a big deal. Then again, I'm not a US pilot, so I could be wrong
.
Cheers,
RB
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Reply #3 -
Nov 23
rd
, 2011 at 6:42pm
DaveSims
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Clear Lake, Iowa
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Could go to the link below and fill out a voluntary ASRS report.
http://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/
The report is not given to the FAA, and can help you out if the FAA does come looking for you. It is a voluntary reporting program run by NASA.
Dave
www.flymcw.com
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Reply #4 -
Nov 23
rd
, 2011 at 8:12pm
Splinter562
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Tampa, FL
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Agreed. This type of situation is exactly what ASRS was setup for.
NASA wants to collect data on how these types of things happen, but they know that it is unreasonable to ask people to incriminate themselves. So they've set up ASRS to allow pilots to self-report accidental reg busts without fear of action being taken against them.
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Reply #5 -
Nov 24
th
, 2011 at 8:58pm
skoker
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Colonel
Jordan never wore his
safety goggles...
1G3
Gender:
Posts: 4611
beaky wrote
on Nov 23
rd
, 2011 at 8:43am:
I'd also consider finding a new instructor... why was a student signed off for local solo pattern work when the ceiling was at or near VFR minimums? And why was this student not taught to maintain VMC in the event that the ceiling lowered below the desired altitude?
Funny story...
I was signed off to go and do my solo work at the same time, but I called the flight because I was preflighting and saw the clouds just dropping rapidly. Had I started just a few minutes earlier I probably would have done the same thing... luckly I didn't.
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