Simviation Forum - Keeping a wary eye on your gauges!

Reply #15 - Sep 27^th, 2011 at 4:40pm

Fozzer Offline
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Brett_Henderson wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 4:22pm:

Psssst.. (read my post #12, per item (e) on your list) Wink

Constant Speed/Controllable Pitch Propellers.
Worthy of a subject all of its own...

...!

Example on the Beech Baron...

Danger: Cruising with coarse pitch, then closing the Throttle to land and forgetting to select fine pitch = Overloading the engine!

(Operating a Car in top gear!).

Paul...I watch my RPMs carefully!... Grin

...!

There is a lot to be said for the simplicity of the fixed prop on my little Cessna 150!.... Grin

...!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constant_speed_propeller

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controllable_pitch_propeller

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Reply #16 - Sep 27^th, 2011 at 5:05pm

jetprop Offline
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it depends on the plane i fly.
if i fly planes withouth vc or if they're military jets i don't care about the gauges,even if i am going 1300 knots at 50 ft,i don't care.

if i fly a tube(wich i never do) i kind of check during takeoff,after a while its autopilot so...

but props like the baron,tiger moth(great aircraft,high realism),cessna or king air i always look at everything during takeoff,landing,the start of a climb and descen.
during cruise i look at the main stuff:speed,altitude and pitch(looking outside if necesary).
during startup and shutdown i follow the checklist EXACTLY.

i think this works well.

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Reply #17 - Sep 27^th, 2011 at 5:48pm

Brett_Henderson Offline
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Fozzer wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 4:40pm:

Brett_Henderson wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 4:22pm:

Psssst.. (read my post #12, per item (e) on your list) Wink

Constant Speed/Controllable Pitch Propellers.
Worthy of a subject all of its own...

...!

Example on the Beech Baron...

Danger: Cruising with coarse pitch, then closing the Throttle to land and forgetting to select fine pitch = Overloading the engine!

(Operating a Car in top gear!).

Paul...I watch my RPMs carefully!... Grin

...!

There is a lot to be said for the simplicity of the fixed prop on my little Cessna 150!.... Grin

...!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constant_speed_propeller

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controllable_pitch_propeller

You hit all the mis-conceptions..

First.. (in the Baron), engine RPM and prop RPM are always the same... they're bolted rigidly to each other. (there is only an engine tach, as a prop tach would be redundant).

Next.. The pilot does not set blade-pitch.. he sets an RPM, and the blade-pitch continuously adjusts on its own to maintain the selected RPM. It can go from coarsest to finest, without ever touching the prop control.

You got this next part, kinda backwards:

Quote:

Danger: Cruising with coarse pitch, then closing the Throttle to land and forgetting to select fine pitch = Overloading the engine!

(Operating a Car in top gear!).

Pulling the throttle to idle at cruise, will cause the blade-pitch to go finer (without you touching the prop-control), as it tries to maintain the selected RPM. The only way to stress the engine at that point, is to go into a dive, and force the prop to drive the engine.. and it's really not stress, it can actually be used, if need be, as a speed-brake (within reason).

The opposite scenario is what's to be avoided.. ala increasing the throttle, and not first, increasing selected RPMs. The engine want's its RPMs to increase, but the blade-pitch goes coarser (again without moving the prop-control), as it tries to hold the engine at the selected RPM...

The car "gear" analogy doesn't work.. because engine RPMs and vehicle-speed are not tied directly to each other..and the pilot doesn't select a gear (blade pitch).. he just sets an RPM... and engine RPM always = prop RPM.. whereas in a car.. a different gear means a change in speed between engine and wheels..

EDIT: That Wiki link for constant-speed props needs serious editing.. lots of errors...

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Reply #18 - Sep 27^th, 2011 at 6:24pm

Brett_Henderson Offline
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I just searched and bumped a thread on this...

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Reply #19 - Sep 27^th, 2011 at 7:00pm

Fozzer Offline
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An elderly FS 2004 addict!
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Posts: 24861

Referring to the analogy between starting a car off with top gear selected...
Starting the Baron's engines with the Prop Lever accidentally left in coarse position will stall the engine due to the increased load in gouging lumps out of the air.
And pulling the Prop Lever to coarse position at a slow tick-over speed will also overload and stall the engine.
Testing the Prop Control (Coarse-Fine) to circulate the oil in the CS mechanism should be carried out with the engine running at a fast tick-over speed to prevent overload and stall.
I mostly leave the Prop Lever running fine (forward) until in the cruise when I pull the Prop Lever slightly to coarse, and adjust the Throttle, and observe the RPM's and manifold pressure and fuel flow, as a guide to economical cruising.

Maybe I am pushing and pulling levers unnecessarily!... Wink

...!

Paul....

...!

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Reply #20 - Sep 27^th, 2011 at 7:34pm

Brett_Henderson Offline
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Fozzer wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 7:00pm:

Referring to the analogy between starting a car off with top gear selected...
Starting the Baron's engines with the Prop Lever accidentally left in coarse position will stall the engine due to the increased load in gouging lumps out of the air.
And pulling the Prop Lever to coarse position at a slow tick-over speed will also overload and stall the engine.
Testing the Prop Control (Coarse-Fine) to circulate the oil in the CS mechanism should be carried out with the engine running at a fast tick-over speed to prevent overload and stall.
I mostly leave the Prop Lever running fine (forward) until in the cruise when I pull the Prop Lever slightly to coarse, and adjust the Throttle, and observe the RPM's and manifold pressure and fuel flow, as a guide to economical cruising.

Maybe I am pushing and pulling levers unnecessarily!... Wink

...!

Paul....

...!

The pushing and pulling is relative.. just matter of how exactly you want to match power-selection, to the flight segment.

You're still locked into the idea that you're selcting blade-pitch. Blade-pitch is a function of power and airspeed.. the prop-control sets RPMs (remember that engine RPM and prop RPM are always the same).

As for starting the engine with the prop-control all the way back (lowest RPM), as soon as oil-pressure develops, the blade-pitch will "flatten" as the engine tries to reach whatever RPM that might be (it's well outside of goverened RPM).

ANYway , I've never heard of someone trying to start the engine with the prop-control all the way back. Even if, for whatever reason, you pulled the control back before starting, the blade-pitch won't change.. the engine has to be running for the governor to work. But again.. well outside of normal operating range.

Quote:

I mostly leave the Prop Lever running fine (forward) until in the cruise when I pull the Prop Lever slightly to coarse, and adjust the Throttle, and observe the RPM's and manifold pressure and fuel flow, as a guide to economical cruising.

This is pretty close to proper technique.. (just try to remember that full-forward is not "fine" pitch.. it's max RPM.. blade-pitch can go from finest to coarsest while the control remains full forward). You're just a bit confused on why you're doing, what you do, and what happens because of what you do (which puts you in good company.. I've met many, experienced pilots who know how to USE a constant-speed prop, but have no idea what's happening.. lol ) ..

I went through a typical, complete takeoff/climb/cruise, in that bumped thread.

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Reply #21 - Sep 28^th, 2011 at 10:00pm

Strategic Retreat Offline
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Fozzer wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 4:05pm:

Above all....Don't panic!...Just remember, you are up in the air...and its a long way down! ... Shocked

....!

And most of all remember, it's not the descent that kills you. It's the IMPACT against something HARD, so choose wisely where landing that plane for the last time. Every landing you walk away from using your legs is a good landing, after all. Grin

There is no such a thing as overkill. Only unworthy targets.

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Reply #22 - Sep 28^th, 2011 at 10:53pm

hyperpep111 Offline
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Fozzer wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 4:05pm:

If you suspect that a gauge is reading incorrectly then you must pay attention, and ascertain why it is, and what could be causing it...
(a) Your Air speed indicator/Altimeter is reading zero. Are the Pitot Tubes freezing up? Apply Pitot Heat.
(b) Your engine is running rough. Adjust Mixture? Carburettor icing up? Apply Carb Heat.
(c) Your oil pressure is dropping. Serious oil leak/cracked cylinder? Correctly identify the faulty engine on a twin, and be prepared to shut it down. Prepare to land.
(d) Battery not charging? Check Generator switches. Reduce the load.
(e) Check RPM gauges for correct speeds when changing Throttle settings (Engine and Propeller).
(f) Observe Manifold Pressure, and Fuel Flow Gauges for cruise performance.

A multitude of different things to be aware of, and precautions to be taken.

Above all....Don't panic!...Just remember, you are up in the air...and its a long way down! ... Shocked

....!

Paul.... Wink

...!

As as Machineman states, many failures wont be obvious in the Sim, but applying the instructions given in the Pilots and Aircraft Owners Handbooks will aid your understanding of the correct controlling and safe operating an aircraft.

...and its educational....and fun!

You say adjust the knob and bush some buttons, I say
EJECT!!! EJECT!!! EJECT!!!

Fozzer wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 4:05pm:

If you suspect that a gauge is reading incorrectly then you must pay attention, and ascertain why it is, and what could be causing it...
(a) Your Air speed indicator/Altimeter is reading zero. Are the Pitot Tubes freezing up? Apply Pitot Heat.
(b) Your engine is running rough. Adjust Mixture? Carburettor icing up? Apply Carb Heat.
(c) Your oil pressure is dropping. Serious oil leak/cracked cylinder? Correctly identify the faulty engine on a twin, and be prepared to shut it down. Prepare to land.
(d) Battery not charging? Check Generator switches. Reduce the load.
(e) Check RPM gauges for correct speeds when changing Throttle settings (Engine and Propeller).
(f) Observe Manifold Pressure, and Fuel Flow Gauges for cruise performance.

A multitude of different things to be aware of, and precautions to be taken.

These are my responses to your solutions. Lettered according to the above.

a) Yes. They are It needs burners. Now where did that pesky f-15 pilot go? Grin

b) They all go through rough times Cheesy

. Therapy should do it Grin

c) Nothing a little duct tape can't fix Grin

d) Yes you can drop off the annoying passenger called your boss Grin

e) Correct speed. Hmmm Got to think about that one...
f)

Fozzer wrote on Sep 27^th, 2011 at 4:05pm:

...and its educational....and fun!

Fun education... Never heard of that before Grin

But I serioussly cannot stress how important it is to mind your safety in real life. Such as always having your ejection seats armed, (The Vulcan crew wouldn't like that) and always carrying a parachute with you Cool

Most people think that flying a plane is dangerous, except pilots because they know how easy it is.
Arguing with a pilot is like wrestling with a pig in the mud, after a while you begin to think the pig likes it.

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Reply #23 - Nov 10^th, 2011 at 7:23pm

Aiden327 Offline
Colonel
Hello!

Posts: 100

Being a sim Airline pilot I am always cross checking my gauges. My Embraer 190 has nearly full Avionics simulation so just about every page is infallible on the MFD. I am constantly cycling through Electrics, Hydraulics, Fuel, Status, and Nav pages. Crosschecking the auto tuned nav frequencies with actually frequencies, and I try to fly with both Magenta Numbers and Green Numbers. Aka, one side of the cockpit is displaying the FMC nav data with the FD coupled to LNAV and VNAV while the right side of the cockpit is following the nav radios not the GPS and is manually tuned by me.

I also crosscheck the left gauges with the right ones and the standby's etc.

If I am forced to do a long APU start from the ramp with no ground power I am extra careful of fuel balance etc.

I enjoy trying to be the Captain and the First Officer at one. Sometimes I wish I was a real pilot which is why I take it seriously.

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Reply #24 - Nov 14^th, 2011 at 2:34pm

Mr._Ryan Offline
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machineman9 wrote on Sep 26^th, 2011 at 2:31pm:

At any given time I could tell you the speed of the car to +/- 1mph just by intuition.

And I'd bet you my pancreas you could do no such thing. That's completely preposterous.

As for watching the gauges, seems to me like a wise idea, unless you're treating the game like a true video game and not a sim.

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