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Visual circuits for Medium sized acft. (Read 866 times)
May 21st, 2011 at 1:37pm

snippyfsxer   Offline
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If I'm flying a light plane, I will do visual circuits at 1000 feet, with a distance of about 1 mile on the downwind leg.  I turn to Base when the threshold is 45 degrees behind me.

If I were flying a heavy aircraft, I would do 1500 feet, and 2 miles, timing myself from the abeam of threshold point and making my base turn 45 seconds later.

But what about all of the various aircraft in between?  For instance, what if I'm flying a King Air, C310, or even a commuter turboprop that might have a Base Leg speed of ~130 knots?  It isn't a DC-10, but it isn't a Cub either, so how should I construct my visual patterns?  The basic GA pattern always seems a bit tight for such an aircraft.  Obviously, since it being a sim, I can do it whatever way I want, but I'm looking for a method that takes the guesswork out of it.

I realize that specific aircraft will have different profiles, specified by a chart, and I also know that there will be specific guidance in place for any airfield in particular...but assuming we don't have that information for aircraft/airport in FSX, what general rule of thumb would apply to what I shall call a "medium" aircraft.

(I abandoned almost all other types of computer games years ago in favor of Flight Simulator, so it surprises me that I still have so many blindspots in my basic knowledge, but that is the way it is)
 
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Reply #1 - May 21st, 2011 at 1:44pm

-Crossfire-   Offline
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Flying the King Air in the real world, I try to keep downwind's about 3 miles from the runway, and turn base as to set me up on about a 3-4 mile final.  1000 feet AGL is what we use for the circuit, try using 1500 feet AGL at night until you're established on slope.

Flying a heavy aircraft in the sim, I would keep it a lot further out than 2 miles... that seems pretty tight.
 

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Reply #2 - May 21st, 2011 at 1:51pm

snippyfsxer   Offline
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-Crossfire- wrote on May 21st, 2011 at 1:44pm:
Flying the King Air in the real world, I try to keep downwind's about 3 miles from the runway, and turn base as to set me up on about a 3-4 mile final.  1000 feet AGL is what we use for the circuit, try using 1500 feet AGL at night until you're established on slope.

Flying a heavy aircraft in the sim, I would keep it a lot further out than 2 miles... that seems pretty tight.


Wow, that is surprisingly large.  I thought you were going to recommend something in between Smiley I'm getting the 1500 ft/2 Mile wide Downwind/ 2 mile final approach from the Visual profile chart found in one of my PMDG heavy manuals.  I think it is the real thing.

I'm scratching my head and picking my nose, as usual Cheesy.  In any case, I guess I should widen things up a bit.  Three payware aircraft in particular, that I'm trying to develop "technique" for are the Milviz C310, and the 2 versions of the Real Air Duke, and the Jetstream 41.

I might add that I have a heck of a time judging distances in the sim.  On Downwind, I really have no method for visually judging how far away from the field I am.  Could be a mile, maybe 2, really don't know.  My field of view spans 3 monitors, and i have a TrackIR, so this setup allows me to utilize visual references within the sim more than some, but I still am pretty clueless.  Advice?

(Flight Sim has a way of making me feel very stupid.  If my confusion keeps up like this, I might have to go back to playing Civilization, or the Elder Scrolls Cry)
 
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Reply #3 - May 21st, 2011 at 5:40pm

Brett_Henderson   Offline
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Quote:
(Flight Sim has a way of making me feel very stupid.  If my confusion keeps up like this, I might have to go back to playing Civilization, or the Elder Scrolls )


I've answered a few of you posts.. it seems you're trying to go about it realistically; which like real flying, makes it a constant learning process. If you could sim realistically and not be confused now and then.. well..  that can't be done  Cool

In the real world, even at the same airport; you'll never, ever encounter the same: traffic, winds, weather, pattern-requirement, aircraft-loading.. so EVERY pattern or approach is at least a bit of a learning experience.

If you find yourself flying solo; no baggage and a light-fuel load on a beautiful, windless day... pulling the power, bleeding airspeed to the white-arc, dumping all flaps for a diving turn to the runway abeam the threshold, as a Lear calls five-mile final..... is diifferent decision when there's a stiff X-wind, and three other people on board  Cheesy
 
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Reply #4 - May 22nd, 2011 at 1:53am

snippyfsxer   Offline
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That is well said.

 
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Reply #5 - May 22nd, 2011 at 6:16pm

snippyfsxer   Offline
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Crossfire:

Here is what I figured out with the PMDG diagram regarding the 2 mile/ 1500 feet / 2 mile final thing...

If you configure the Queen as per the diagram, her correct manuevering speed will be about 160 knots (flaps 20) when abeam of the threshold.  45 seconds later, that is precisely 2 miles.  Since the turning diameter for that configuration, at a typical wt, seems to be almost exactly 2 miles, if you begin a standard rate turn, descending at about approx. 800 fpm, you will roll out on final, aligned with the runway at 7-800 feet, at a distance of 2 miles.  All that remains is to deploy the landing flaps, and slow to Vref + 5.  No discernable Base Leg, just a continous, descending turn. I tried it several times this morning, and it worked out very well each time.

So, in other words, the diagram is obviously showing the minimum pattern that the plane is safely capable of.   I'm thinking that maybe in real life, it could possibly be easier to do it that way, in that plane, because you don't have to judge when to begin the turn to final, plus you can do it in a right hand pattern without the need for eyebrow windows.  My patterns are definitely better now.

The way I was doing it before, I was doing a distinct base leg: I only thought I was 2 miles abeam the runway, but I was actually somewhat further.  At 90% zoom factor, I now realize that 2 miles abeam the midpoint of a 10k foot runway, the arrival end and the departure end will stretch just about from one side of my monitor to the other.  And at 4 miles, it will occupy half of my monitor, so on and so forth.  (I consider this realization a breakthrough in my VFR flight simming mental tool box Cheesy Cheesy Yeah!)
 
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Reply #6 - Jun 5th, 2011 at 3:41pm

C   Offline
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-Crossfire- wrote on May 21st, 2011 at 1:44pm:
Flying a heavy aircraft in the sim, I would keep it a lot further out than 2 miles... that seems pretty tight.


Depends what shaped circuits you are doing - ie, whether you have a continuous final(s) turn, or put in a base leg. Depending on wind, then 2-3 miles wouldn't be unreasonable in a relatively heavy aeroplane doing a continuous final turn. Smiley
 
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