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What we wish: Online (Read 1566 times)
Reply #15 - Sep 30th, 2010 at 6:07pm

Travis   Offline
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Boikat, I'm referring to how outdated some of the concepts for designing in FS right now are.  They rely on ideas that should have been left behind in FS9, but instead were ported over to FSX without too much thought as to how it affects the users.  For instance, if we had been given the opportunity to use Python scripting in FS9, the systems would have run smoother and you wouldn't have to deal with some aircraft having choppy gauges in the VC.  And the entire creation of panels and interiors, as well as switching them around, could have been solved years ago with some rewriting of the way things work in FS.  VTOL could have been truly simulated (as is the case with X-Plane) instead of emmulated if the designers hadn't stuck with the same old methods of doing things.

A complete rewrite of all the coding is necessary to move forward.  Any legacy software should be junked.  Just my opinion. Wink
 

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Reply #16 - Oct 2nd, 2010 at 1:09am

Boikat   Offline
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That's all fine and dandy, but I still do not see how someone wanting to fly an FSX aircraft in MSFlight places any restriction on a designer.  Again, I'm not using "backwards compatible" to mean MSFlight aircraft should be flyable in FSX.
 

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Reply #17 - Oct 2nd, 2010 at 1:33am

Travis   Offline
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Yes, I understand that.  What I'm referring to is that the modeling system of FS8-FS9-FSX is outmoded and needs to be replaced with something a little more efficient, since other software and game platforms have come along in the past ten years to fix some of the issues inherent with the MDL system setup.  Errors that, once fixed, free up a load of system resources for things like scenery and other computations.

Backwards-compatible to me has always meant that the most current sim is able to incorporate older models and methods.
 

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Reply #18 - Oct 2nd, 2010 at 1:40am

BrandonF   Offline
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I can't believe I'm saying this, but I don't care if FSX add-ons aren't compatible with flight. The MDL system is old. I agree with Travis.

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Reply #19 - Oct 2nd, 2010 at 4:25am

Hagar   Offline
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Travis wrote on Oct 2nd, 2010 at 1:33am:
Yes, I understand that.  What I'm referring to is that the modeling system of FS8-FS9-FSX is outmoded and needs to be replaced with something a little more efficient, since other software and game platforms have come along in the past ten years to fix some of the issues inherent with the MDL system setup.  Errors that, once fixed, free up a load of system resources for things like scenery and other computations.

Backwards-compatible to me has always meant that the most current sim is able to incorporate older models and methods.

I have to agree with your comments Travis. I've only been involved with MSFS from FS98 (FS6.1) but I've had every version since then. Flight Simulator was supposed to be an ongoing series under continuous development to keep up with new hardware & modelling techniques. Unfortunately there didn't seem to be any continuity on the development teams & it was a case of two steps forward & one back every time. Improvements that had been introduced in the current version were often completely left out in the next. FS2000 is a good example of this. It was supposed to be a big improvement over FS98 but turned out to be a complete disaster, even after about 3 official updates. Does that sound familiar? FS2002 was what FS2000 should have been only two years late.

I think FS9 was about as far as they could go using the original MSFS format. They tried to break the mould with FSX but were hampered by trying to make it backward compatible with FS9 addons. It might have been better if they'd gone the whole hog & started again with a completely new engine.

I'm afraid FSX was a step too far for me. I won't even contemplate using this new Flight so this is the end of the road. A very enjoyable journey it's been too. Cool
 

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Reply #20 - Oct 2nd, 2010 at 2:16pm

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I am totally for the Online / Offline as it is set in 2004 (FS9).

I am 1 Trillion % AGAINST Gamespy.  Ever since Gamespy took over from MSNZone, the multiplay function has gone to total dog $#!T !!!   


My personal Opinion on matters, is such that MICRO$OFT had the PERFECT set up with FS9 (2004), all that it really needed to be even better, was newer scenery.  While the scenery was good, lets take a look at some of the 3rd party software that made it better... Ultimate Terrain, REX2004, FSGenesis to name a few.  Had MS put their thoughts really into FSX, and just improved on the FS9 Scenery, they would have had their MS "FLIGHT" in FSX. 

The Scenery in Flight looks amazing.  Now all they need (in my opinion) is to go OLD SCHOOL with the Settings and Multiplayer Connections, and Keep the new scenery.  Then again, I would love to see MS Flight use NOTHING BUT space shuttle telemetry (STRM? DATA) and Photorealisitc.  Not to mention REX or HDE Clouds.   

If we demand them to make THE BEST 'un-simulator' possible, then it should have nothing but the absolute best materials on the market put in to it.  If you want it to look and feel real, then use PHOTOREALISTIC on EVERYTHING.




oh, and make it DX9 "and" DX10 compatible (for those of us with crappy 10yr old computers  Tongue Smiley
 

The thoughts and expressions contained in the post above are solely my own, and not necessarily those of Simviation.com, its Moderators, its Staff, its Members, or other guests. They can not, are not, and will not be held liable for any thoughts, or expressions, or posts that I have made, or will make in the future.

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Reply #21 - Oct 3rd, 2010 at 7:47pm

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Hi

Don't know what GameSpy is but if it is something to do with online/offline - we need to be able to play the game off line simply from the point of internet connection reliability.  My place here in the country often suffers power failures where even if I get the power back, I may not get the internet back.  I should be able to load the game with or without the internet active.
As for the format of the aircraft files, that issue is up to the compiler.  MDL or something else does not matter too much as far as I can see.  I just want to be able to continue using GMax with the current part names and animation.  A plug-in could then compile the aircraft into any file type needed for the game.
We also need a few more power source options.  As far as I was able to tell, there is no option to make a rocket powered aircraft, electric power (as in solar power), or human peddle power, or even rubber band powered aircraft.  I wanted to design dual generators on a single engine aircraft, or add a pop-out air driven generator, but there is no option for that either.
In multi player mode, I would like to see the LOD method of aircraft loading as talked about earlier in this thread, but with one difference being the aircraft should be steaming somehow, protecting copy write.  Either way, aircraft presented on screen that you are not flying and that are not resident on your own confuser would not be flyable anyway since neither versions of the cockpit would be downloaded.  One big this though is again with multi player, we should be able to see steamed versions of each others paint jobs, again starting with lowest LOD.
I would love to see a flat earth mode where nothing is loaded into the game other than air, ground, and the aircraft.  It becomes kind of tedious waiting for the game to re-start after each time I crash  my aircraft (during the time I am adjusting the flight dynamics).  This would also be nice for seeing how each change in the repaint actually looks.
We should also be able to design dynamics for road vehicles, trains, and ships, as well as having tags or part names for the appropriate control systems.  And - how about Walking people...
Another thing I have thought about are some of the online multi player games/chat environments like Second Life, There, Kaneva.  In those, your avatar can walk around, but it is in a made up world.  How cool would it be to be able to load a Human avatar into an actual globe such as is available in Google Earth, or in Flight Sim.  If that globe where Flight Sim, a human avatar would see us fly over head, or we should be able to see them on the ground.  The Trains game could use the same environment so we would also see each other.  I could imagine my Human Avatar walking up to an aircraft, train, car, or boat, getting in and going and exploring the world, then getting out and walking around.  Maybe take a walk up Mount Everest!!! Smiley

Harold
 

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Reply #22 - Oct 3rd, 2010 at 7:50pm

BrandonF   Offline
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Dickert wrote on Oct 3rd, 2010 at 7:47pm:
Don't know what GameSpy is but if it is something to do with online/offline


Gamespy is the multiplayer server for FSX. Most don't call it a server; they call it "crap."  Grin Basically, you randomly get logged off, it is unreliable, and just not easy to use. Hopefully since LIVE is being used in Flight, multiplayer will be much more enjoyable.

Cool
 
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Reply #23 - Oct 3rd, 2010 at 10:26pm

Travis   Offline
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Well, I guess we're merging threads, here! Grin  At any rate, Harold:

If (and that's a big hopeful!) the MDL system gets trashed, you probably won't be able to use the same part names, and possibly even the same design program, as the FS series.  What will probably happen is that you will end up with a new set of equally complex and boggling names that defy logic, but in 6 months you'll have a complete working knowledge of each part and what they're meant for.

As for the personal avatars: why would you want to wander around the scenery in a sim?  Have you ever taken a "walk" in FS?  Get in a small aircraft (Cessna or the like) and enter slew mode.  Press the up arrow on your keyboard once and sit back.  Pretty damn uneventful, even with full sliders.  If we want that, we can always create a player craft with a small person and get in that.  After all, with enough scripting, we could get that person to "walk" around. Wink
 

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Reply #24 - Oct 4th, 2010 at 1:33pm

Boikat   Offline
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A similar theme of a simulated world was brought up in the old FSXI thread, IIRC. A highly detailed "Earth" where verious sims could run at the same time, such as "Trains" and "Flight", along with ground vehicles and ships, with people being a nice touch.  It's a great concept, but then again, MS is aiming at a "Flight simulator", even if they dropped "simulator" from the title, so I think that is where their focus will remain.  Ten years from now, who knows?

Personally, I like the idea of a simulated "walk, drive, fly or sail" virtual world.
 

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Reply #25 - Oct 4th, 2010 at 2:09pm

Boikat   Offline
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Harold wrote..

Quote:
And - how about Walking people...
Another thing I have thought about are some of the online multi player games/chat environments like Second Life, There, Kaneva.  In those, your avatar can walk around, but it is in a made up world.  How cool would it be to be able to load a Human avatar into an actual globe such as is available in Google Earth, or in Flight Sim.  If that globe where Flight Sim, a human avatar would see us fly over head, or we should be able to see them on the ground.  The Trains game could use the same environment so we would also see each other.  I could imagine my Human Avatar walking up to an aircraft, train, car, or boat, getting in and going and exploring the world, then getting out and walking around.


That may be too elaborate for current technology, but shouldn't be too far off.  But, avatar wise, it would be great to have a personal avatar, ans some generics for the GA aircraft, at least.  Recently, I've been knocking about in Brent Henderson's C177RG, nice aircraft, but no pilot in the pilot seat.  Not that that is a "bad thing", since there are a ot of add-ons like that.  Now, imagine a drop-down menu that you can choose to add pilot's and passengers to a small GA aircraft (or the flight deck of a comercial airliner). 

Now, since they would be "textured" in some manner, like they are currently, it would not be too hard to pick one and "Put Your Face Here". and I'm sure it can be done without having to pull and stretch the image. 

Then there's the two "babadings" in the Wilga that ...    Never mine... Wink

But, back to the point, The walk-around avatar, I do not see happening, but I like the idea.  Besides, they'd be great for the "adventure" style missions. 

Imagine landing your Kingair 200 on an abandoned airstrip on a tropical island off Cost Rica, looking for a small band of lost biologists.  You see what's left of their aircraft.  It's not crashed, it's shredded. You hear a noise echoing through the lush jungles surounding the airstrip.   Noises rhat have not heard in over 65 million years....  Sounds like a plot to a movie. Cheesy

 

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Reply #26 - Oct 4th, 2010 at 9:11pm

Capt.Propwash   Offline
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Quote:
Well, I guess we're merging threads, here!   At any rate, Harold:

If (and that's a big hopeful!) the MDL system gets trashed, you probably won't be able to use the same part names, and possibly even the same design program, as the FS series.  What will probably happen is that you will end up with a new set of equally complex and boggling names that defy logic, but in 6 months you'll have a complete working knowledge of each part and what they're meant for.


As for the personal avatars: why would you want to wander around the scenery in a sim?  Have you ever taken a "walk" in FS?  Get in a small aircraft (Cessna or the like) and enter slew mode.  Press the up arrow on your keyboard once and sit back.  Pretty damn uneventful, even with full sliders.  If we want that, we can always create a player craft with a small person and get in that.  After all, with enough scripting, we could get that person to "walk" around. 

Boikat wrote on Oct 4th, 2010 at 1:33pm:
A similar theme of a simulated world was brought up in the old FSXI thread, IIRC. A highly detailed "Earth" where verious sims could run at the same time, such as "Trains" and "Flight", along with ground vehicles and ships, with people being a nice touch.  It's a great concept, but then again, MS is aiming at a "Flight simulator", even if they dropped "simulator" from the title, so I think that is where their focus will remain.  Ten years from now, who knows?

Personally, I like the idea of a simulated "walk, drive, fly or sail" virtual world.




Well, in some addons for FS9 as well as defaults (Queen of the Mist - NYC, Niagra Falls)..... and some AI in FSX... we have ships that move around by themselves.  Too bad in FSXI we cant have AI people sliding out to your plane if you are parked just right on the "T", engines off, and parking break turned on.   Not to mention keep the fuel truck and Jetbridge.
 

The thoughts and expressions contained in the post above are solely my own, and not necessarily those of Simviation.com, its Moderators, its Staff, its Members, or other guests. They can not, are not, and will not be held liable for any thoughts, or expressions, or posts that I have made, or will make in the future.

Computer Specs:: Acer Aspire Laptop..Win7 Home Premium 64-bit (sp1), AMD Athlon II X2 P340 (Dual Core) [2.2 Ghz], ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4250 (256mb), 4GB DDR3......FS9.1(sp3) / FSX (sp2)..... Ultimate Terrain X, Ground Environment X, REX, FTX ORBX PNW-PFJ-NRM-CRM, OZx, Tongass Fjords, Misty Moorings
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Reply #27 - Oct 9th, 2010 at 7:37pm

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I would like to make sure that it automatically injects the online multiplayer aircraft data into the TSCAS table so that external gauges can see the locations of the multiplayer aircraft on stuff like radar displays, just like you can with the AI in the non multiplayer modes.

best,

..........john
 

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Reply #28 - Oct 13th, 2010 at 10:32am

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My biggest wish is that they fix all of that port opening malarkey and make flying online a one click deal.
 

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Reply #29 - Oct 13th, 2010 at 3:37pm

Travis   Offline
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More than likely, if they require you to have an internet connection to play (gods forbid!) they'll make it as easy as possible.  And if they have a client system (like Half Life with Steam) the connecting and routing will all be done for you by the program.  So I wouldn't worry about it too much.
 

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