Simviation Forum - AI Traffic stuck in "Push Back 2" mode

Mar 13^th, 2010 at 7:01pm

LeeC Offline
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Hi all,
I am taking my first steps into the world of AI traffic using AIFP.

I have set up my flight plan fine, compiled the BGL file and moved that to a folder in FSX. This all seems to be fine because when I start a flight at the required airport and time, the AI aircraft is sat in a parking gate in "sleep" mode. Once the time passes to initiate the flight plan, it goes through a couple of stages, but then just sits there in "Push Back 2" mode.

I have checked the airport with ADE and there appears to be valid taxiways, although I would expect that as it is a default FSX airport (KYUM).

Is there anything really obvious that I should be looking for that could cause it to get stuck in that specific mode? For example, does the airport require specific facilities to cater for push-backs?

Cheers for any help,
Lee

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Reply #1 - Mar 13^th, 2010 at 8:58pm

LeeC Offline
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Just to try and eliminate some options, I tried a flight plan from Manchester, UK (EGCC) and got exactly the same problem, tried a different aircraft, and that got on its way no problem... so now I am utterly confused. Huh

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Reply #2 - Mar 14^th, 2010 at 3:03pm

LeeC Offline
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Well this is a disappointing response. Sad

Have I really managed to ask a question nobody knows the answer to?

Or have I asked one that has been asked so many times, nobody wants to answer it again? Undecided

If the latter, just think, it's not the number of times you answer the question that matters, but that amount of help that your answer gives each time you answer it. Wink

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Reply #3 - Mar 14^th, 2010 at 5:24pm

dave3cu Offline
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A little patience Lee Wink

It's the weekend and forum traffic is probably less than during the week. I'm sure it's not the 'latter'.

What aircraft...default or add-on? By stuck at push back ...does it remain in the parking spot, or push back then stall?

From your accounts it might be the aircraft that's the problem. If it's an add-on user flyable aircraft, some do not behave properly as ai.

It might be easier to trouble shoot if you would send me an e-mail with the traffic.bgl and a link to the aircraft if it's an add-on.

Dave

At that time [1909] the chief engineer was almost always the chief test pilot as well. That had the fortunate result of eliminating poor engineering early in aviation. Igor Sikorsky

I intend to live forever....so far, so good. Steven Wright

You know....you can just rip up a to-do list.

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Reply #4 - Mar 14^th, 2010 at 6:47pm

LeeC Offline
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Sorry, I've been quite convinced that many days have passed this weekend... I thought my question had been on here longer than it really had... my apologies. Sad

The plane is the Stinson 108-3 that I did the "Bushy Tail" repaint on. I think it is the model because I can create the same flight plan with a different aircraft and it works fine.

It goes through "Clearance", "Preflight Support", "Push Back 1" and then just sits there on "Push Back 2". If you go to the airport after the departure time, then it is "enroute".

Here is a link to the BGL file zipped up. http://www.digital-essence.co.uk/misc/fsx/Traffic_BushyTail.zip

The Stinson is here:- http://www.fsnorthwest.net/index.php?option=com_jdownloads&Itemid=53&task=view.d...

Even though the traffic file has Bushy Tail in the title, I have made it use one of the default versions of the Stinson so you don't have to mess about with the repaint.

It takes you from KYUM (Yuma) to 61b (Boulder) and back again.

Thanks for your help dave3cu, and again... sorry for being Mr Impatient.

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Reply #5 - Mar 14^th, 2010 at 9:01pm

dave3cu Offline
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Lee,

I'll check it out. I do know that some tail draggers do not push back properly, if at all. Never have looked into 'why?'.

If it's contact points, it's probably fixable. If not, I'll ask Mike (the author) if there is a way.

Dave

At that time [1909] the chief engineer was almost always the chief test pilot as well. That had the fortunate result of eliminating poor engineering early in aviation. Igor Sikorsky

I intend to live forever....so far, so good. Steven Wright

You know....you can just rip up a to-do list.

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Reply #6 - Mar 14^th, 2010 at 9:18pm

LeeC Offline
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Dave,
Just thought of one more thing that might be relevant. When the aircraft is initialised, either when you control it, or as an AI aircraft, it quite often appears to be below the ground and then jumps in the air, and then settles back down. That may be relevant, it may not... it's just the only one I have that does that.

Cheers
Lee

P.s. I would have emailed Michael myself, but I have been asking him a few things over the repaint and problems with his site... so I thought best not bother him again for a while. Wink

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Reply #7 - Mar 14^th, 2010 at 9:50pm

dave3cu Offline
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Lee,

Even as a user aircraft the Stinson does not push back, so that is the problem.

I'll ask Mike the next time I talk to him.

There is another Stinson 108, by Paul Clawson, that does push back as user ac, so should for ai. http://www.simviation.com/fsxprops10.htm. Of course, it would need a BushyTail repaint.

Dave

At that time [1909] the chief engineer was almost always the chief test pilot as well. That had the fortunate result of eliminating poor engineering early in aviation. Igor Sikorsky

I intend to live forever....so far, so good. Steven Wright

You know....you can just rip up a to-do list.

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Reply #8 - Mar 14^th, 2010 at 10:36pm

LeeC Offline
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Dave,
Yeah, I did notice once when I parked in front of the fuel box, that I couldn't push back, but I thought it was just me pressing the wrong key, or maybe that the facility wasn't at that airport. I never thought it could have been a model fault. I've never really delved into the creation side of FSX before, so it's all new territory for me.

As far as I know, Mike is in the process of rebuilding his Stinson 108. I asked him not long back if he could do a version without the air intake on the nose, he said he couldn't because he was in the process of rebuilding. So perhaps it is something he will fix in his next version.

Thanks for investigating though, your help was appreciated.
Cheers
Lee

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Reply #9 - Mar 15^th, 2010 at 12:17pm

dave3cu Offline
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Lee, found the problem...

To get the Stinson to push back...use Notepad to open the aircraft.cfg file and scroll down to find the [contact_points] section.

Find these 2 lines and change to these values.

static_pitch=7.00
static_cg_height=3.8

This will also eliminate the 'bounce' when first loaded.

Also in the aircraft.cfg file.....find the [General] section and add (or edit) these 2 lines to the section.

atc_type=Stinson
atc_model=S108

This will cause pilots and ATC to use the proper aircraft name in communications.

Dave

« Last Edit: Mar 15^th, 2010 at 3:43pm by dave3cu »

At that time [1909] the chief engineer was almost always the chief test pilot as well. That had the fortunate result of eliminating poor engineering early in aviation. Igor Sikorsky

I intend to live forever....so far, so good. Steven Wright

You know....you can just rip up a to-do list.

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Reply #10 - Mar 15^th, 2010 at 3:52pm

LeeC Offline
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Dave,
That's brilliant, thank you.

I sat with the SDK docs last night trying to work out what might have been causing the problem, also comparing to aircraft that did work... even to the point of trying to get a C# simconnect project working to try and pull some variables out of FSX, but that failed from the off with another problem.

The problem is, when you don't know what to look for, you tend to opt for the "clutch at straws" approach, and after changing various values and copy+paste'ing lines from other aircraft, I gave up.

Eventually, I will work out more stuff with all this. Unfortunately, it does have to fit in my spare time in between writing games for a living... so it just won't happen fast. It means I have to rely quite a bit at the moment on people helping. But I can assure you, all help is very much appreciated... so thank you again.

Cheers
Lee

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Reply #11 - Mar 15^th, 2010 at 7:07pm

LeeC Offline
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Well, I have just sat here in Yuma airport watching Bushy Tail taxi towards the runway, while it did so, I took off for an aerial view of goings on. It stopped just short of the runway, obviously awaiting clearance, then it was onto the runway and off on its way to Boulder. As it climbed, the ATC chipped in and gave it the required turn instructions and off it went... and I smiled.

Having been a game dev for so many years, AI has always been a fascination for me, and it is moments like this that make me realise just how rewarding the whole aspect of gaming is, and how immersive it can all be.

To watch one of your repaint creations, take off on your flight plan, flying the real owner's route... and all the time being directed by the in-game ATC AI (which responds to you flying nearby as well), is just immensely satisfying. I don't think any other game genre does this to this level of immersion... I love it. Cheesy

Thanks again Dave, you made a confused (and impatient Wink

) man very happy.

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