Flight Ace wrote on Jan 21^st, 2010 at 9:16pm:




One thing I cant stand is educators who use the term 'audience" and I will tell you why..   they suggest there is some kind of 'show' going because they are the ones in the 'spotlight' with their students.

I find a lot of them are 2 bit losers and egotists that couldn’t make it in the real world in their field of industry so they fell back to education in order to be the 'head honcho' and not end up being the office idiot on the job.

I am not saying that is true of all educators! but I have come across more of those idiots in the speech circuit at the universities than I can remember and its a real shame as it does effect our education system and the level of education people get in our schools here in the USA


Now,

I understood what you said and what you meant

However most of these people don’t. They read things people say and when those statements come with a resume attached like yours did they then look at the statements as conclusions with authoritative validity. They shouldn’t but they DO.. that’s the real world.

Are we swapping resumes?  I don’t do that kind of thing because I have no need to hold my education up in front of anyone however I hold two PhD’s which I busted my ass to get and one of my first major projects was working on the team that designd the upgrades for the Lunar Module guidance system and later, the space shuttle.

Using examples such as the critical temp for silicon had no bearing on the discussion.

I know what the properties of silicon are however the temperature and conditions at which a processor will fail is not directly in line with those properties and if you know what you are talking about, you know that! That had absolutely no relevance to the defined subject matter at hand.

Without any of the sanctioned technical information in front of you the statements you made were at best a guess based on repeating things you read over time. Now that you have the information in front of you and assuming you do in fact understand what you are reading you can clearly see that critical tolerance point in system A and critical tolerance point in system B is a floating value that can present 2 completely different outcomes. Those values can change in each system constantly. We add in the wild card of overclocking and we change it again. 

Therefore your statements to me, although they had a ‘general’ basis for consideration, were in fact false and worse, misleading to others the way they were presented with your background. I can read between the lines too.

Sometimes it takes an uneducated view with respect to a result in order to see the forest from the trees like with changes memory timing makes in the sim. Engineers or those who have an math/engineering based education are sometimes so full of themselves they are convinced and satisfied with what they think they see because they went to school, worked in the field and have “reasoned it out”.

Like many engineers I have fired over the years, your statements and the way you present them assume far too much without facts.

I will not sit here and read about how someone with a engineering education knows CAS9 memory is all that is needed and is not worth the cost of higher quality memory product. There is as much ‘assuming’ BS in those comments as there was in the temp statements.


And remember you said 100c is the end of the line. Just how do you know that? It wasn't for my i7 920 and I know others where it wasn't. These things happen when stress testing a PC.  Intel must have performed a burn out test. Do you know what it is? .


This is exactly what I am talking about.. If you can not grasp the limitations of the processor based on the engineering data/information I have posted in this thread then there is nothing I can say that will make any difference. If you read what I posted and can in fact comprehend the data provided then you should KNOW where the limits are.

The reason I was so aggressive was because I expect far more from someone with an engineering background than I do with typical users and although I am more than willing to discuss the facts I am not willing to read statements that insinuate educated conclusions when I know for a fact those conclusions are wrong.




Lets just leave at that and let it go..  no hard feelings.

Nick

snippyfsxer wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2010 at 9:50pm:




READ   http://download.intel.com/design/processor/datashts/320834.pdf

Table 2-6. Processor Absolute Minimum and Maximum Ratings


the value I posted is based on the 80c LIMIT with the right HSF installed. 1.42 is VALID if the correct conditions are met but I never said you should SET IT to 1.42 and slam it to the wall right out of the gate!

I have always stressed users should be reasonable with their clocks and realize there is a difference between enthusiasts and typical use. I post the voltage values in relationship to 80c

That 80c limit I place is there for a REASON so it covers everyone within the specs I post so that users who read my advice get values that are safe to run if they follow my direction with those values.

Intel says DRAM VOLTAGE max is 1.875 with respect to Vss      (I would explain but there is no need in this thread just )

OK?

So lets realize that when I post something it takes into consideration the variables, the possibilities of the environment and the engineering.. My concern is with the user losing their investment to a short term gain, not the user getting to 4.5Ghz!

This is not ExtremeSystems.org and if you knew my username there and beyond3D.com you would know I am not some 2 bit internet wacko and I know what the hell I am talking about.


I want you people to have a SAFE and CLOCK that serves you well and not have to deal with the cost of a hard lesson.


Perhaps if I put it this way everyone here will get what I have been saying...

I have a colleague that has been running a 975 for 6 months @ 1.58v CPU VOLTAGE on phase change 24/7. Is he running that processor under load stress tests to 80c???   HELL NO

He recalculated using the Intel information and runs that chip at max well under 54c which is why it has not failed and run 24/7 for 6 months. I burned a 965 in about 3.5 months running it on air @ 1.55 and not exceeding 80c

Do we get it now???

NickN wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2010 at 9:45pm:

Nick,

I wasn't swapping resumes with you and I was already aware that you had one PHD, but not about the second. And Dr. Needham, my admiration of you is based solely on the many hours you have unselfishly spent for giving help to so many in setting up their computers (countless different configurations) so that they can enjoy FSX. And you have been a great help to me. And you are entitled to your opinions about me, but your loose comments about 2 bit losers, egotists, and idiots crosses the line.  A number of my good friends back in my home town teach at the local University. And I applaud them and the educators who have chosen this profession because of their sacrifice in higher pay to provide a brighter future for the young people of our country.

In spite of what you think, I don't make major changes to my two personal computers without first conducting a reasonable amount of research. And I have yet to fry any of the last three that I packaged for FSX. And I do go to more than one legitimate source for information.

I spent 30 years, after retiring from the military, in two large corporations. During that time, not once did I ever have to fire someone (engineer or other). Most of our employees, including myself, were required to attend mandatory training in such areas as team building, communications skills, marketing strategies, proposal preparation, management skills, cost benefits, etc. A lot of the training was taught by outside consultants and some by the corporate staff such as myself. The environment was such that employee relations were always, for the most part, congenial. There was little need for firing and if it came up, it required an extensive background folder on the specific individual.

And you say you have fired many engineers over the years? I'm sorry, but like your continued absurd and surreal posts/statements about me, I just don't believe you.

And I agree, lets just leave it at that and let it go - no hard feelings

NickN wrote on Jan 24^th, 2010 at 12:50pm:

Well then, let's summarize,

My Spec - P6T Deluxe MB running an i7-920 CPU - fan cooled, CL9 DDR3 1600 Corsair memory, 1,000 watt power supply, 10,000 RPM Hard Drive, and a 26 inch Samsung monitor. 

Ran a stress test for 24 hours resulting in all 4 core temps staying under 80c. Vcore voltage set to 1.375v. Over-clock is to 3.82 MHz.

I ran a test run with CL7 Corsair RAM which I acquired on loan. It improved performance by about 2 percent. This validated test data I used for selecting my original RAM.

This new PC exceeds expectations. The graphics are outstanding and performance allows realistic smooth flights anywhere in the world. No stutters, no issues, no problems.

And, Dr. Needham, I do have it all under control, thank you, and there is no doubt that you are able to read between the lines.

Definitely, no hard feelings,

Cheers

NickN wrote on Jan 26^th, 2010 at 10:41am:

Nick,


I did not say anything about being false. What I said is, "I don't believe you", which is just my opinion.

And Why?  Because each time I log onto this forum and read the many issues or problems people are having, there is this Icon of a man who goes into great detail to solve their problems. And because of this, I simply can't believe that you fit the mold of someone who thinks in a manner characterized in some of your statements.

And NO, you don't need to have Intel technical documentation,  know memory performance with respect to MSFS, or be familiar with how render software works with hardware in order to understand the basic concepts in setting up a computer. If one has questions, then he/she needs to do some research to get information from sources that do. And I, as most, believe that key source on this forum is you.

And finally, in respect to memory. CL9 Corsair 1600 runs my computer nicely with a i7 920 CPU at 3.82 GHz. FSX runs smoothly without issues. Faster memory might get me to 4GHZ, but the added cost compared to a performance boost wasn't worth it to me. If I had selected the more costly i7 950 CPU, I would have opted for CL6 memory.

Cheers