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Reply #15 - Jan 5th, 2006 at 11:54pm

Nexus   Offline
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I know it's still early. But all the "breaking news" so far has been pure eye candy. While that is good and all, but this is a FLIGHT simulator, and to be honest with you sim pilots...you'd be amazed how poorly FS9 depicts flying characteristics, especially in turbulence, ground handling and rudder usage.

I want improvements in that departement.
 
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Reply #16 - Jan 6th, 2006 at 12:16am

Katahu   Offline
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Quote:
I know it's still early. But all the "breaking news" so far has been pure eye candy. While that is good and all, but this is a FLIGHT simulator, and to be honest with you sim pilots...you'd be amazed how poorly FS9 depicts flying characteristics, especially in turbulence, ground handling and rudder usage.

I want improvements in that departement.


To me, that doesn't matter because I almost never use the defaults anyways. Today's addons have better dynamics than their default counterparts, so I use those a lot.
 
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Reply #17 - Jan 6th, 2006 at 12:35am

Nexus   Offline
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To me, that doesn't matter because I almost never use the defaults anyways. Today's addons have better dynamics than their default counterparts, so I use those a lot.


The problem itself lies in the physics engine of the sim.
It cannot think "logical", but the flight char's are programmed with text lines in in the cfg.  Whereas X-plane can depict actual turbulence and realistic ground handling etc.
 
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Reply #18 - Jan 6th, 2006 at 12:47am

BFMF   Offline
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MS will eventually get there with the flight simulator Wink
 
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Reply #19 - Jan 6th, 2006 at 12:48am

Katahu   Offline
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The problem itself lies in the physics engine of the sim.
It cannot think "logical", but the flight char's are programmed with text lines in in the cfg.  Whereas X-plane can depict actual turbulence and realistic ground handling etc.


Don't forget that X-Plane's physics are patented by Laminar Research. Therefore, M$ can't copy the engine. Besides, changing the engine will still require all of us addon developers to learn all about any new engine just to even achieve a half-decent addon. And the last time I checked, learning about any new engine takes a lot of time. Why do you think CFS3 has so little addons compared to CFS2?
 
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Reply #20 - Jan 6th, 2006 at 12:58am

Nexus   Offline
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Don't forget that X-Plane's physics are patented by Laminar Research. Therefore, M$ can't copy the engine. Besides, changing the engine will still require all of us addon developers to learn all about any new engine just to even achieve a half-decent addon. And the last time I checked, learning about any new engine takes a lot of time. Why do you think CFS3 has so little addons compared to CFS2?


Just look at Halflife and Halflife 2.
Those are two different engines, but add-on developers quickly learned the new engine and managed to produce even better mods to the game.

Same scenario will apply to FS
 
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Reply #21 - Jan 6th, 2006 at 1:15am

Katahu   Offline
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Well, I have only used HL2 [first time I used a half life product] so I can't tell the difference.

We can argue all we want, but the decision ultimately rests with the entire FS community. And don't forget that majorities rule in any vote. If 40,000 members [out of 50,000] in a community support the old engine, then the remaining 10,000 are out of luck and they will have to get use to it because M$ will always follow the ideas of the majority due to popularity.

Just because a few member [out of 50,000] don't like the old-style engine doesn't mean that the rest of the members of the community have to comply.

Therefore, as of right now, this arguement about changing the game engine is over. If you like X-Plane better, then go use it and stop whining about FS.
 
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Reply #22 - Jan 6th, 2006 at 8:01am
Jakemaster   Ex Member

 
From what Ive seen, it looks like they are working on flight models.  At CES, the speaker took the bell 206.  He took off, turned (like a helicopter SHOULD), then flew off just like a real heli.  All this on an Xbox controller.

And yes, it was a live display.

Remember, we still have 1 year, so I imagine that there will be ALOT  of improvements by the time it arrives
 
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Reply #23 - Jan 6th, 2006 at 9:30am

Nexus   Offline
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Well, I have only used HL2 [first time I used a half life product] so I can't tell the difference.

We can argue all we want, but the decision ultimately rests with the entire FS community. And don't forget that majorities rule in any vote. If 40,000 members [out of 50,000] in a community support the old engine, then the remaining 10,000 are out of luck and they will have to get use to it because M$ will always follow the ideas of the majority due to popularity.

Just because a few member [out of 50,000] don't like the old-style engine doesn't mean that the rest of the members of the community have to comply.

Therefore, as of right now, this arguement about changing the game engine is over. If you like X-Plane better, then go use it and stop whining about FS.


Believe me almost ALL add on developers, especially payware aircrafts wants a MORE advanced engine. Because the teams of PMDG, LDS etc cannot push the limitations of the engines further, because they are already there.

So you may want to get out of this argument which is fine, but you are certainly not correct about your statement. The comminuty is craving for a new engine, and many will be very disappointed if it's justa  revamped FS2002 engine - yet again.
 
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Reply #24 - Jan 6th, 2006 at 9:44am

Crumbso   Offline
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Well I'm not that impressed by the eye candy, it's nice but shouldn't be the main focus of the update. They missed the one bit of eye-candy I would have cared about and that is self-shadowing, proper mixing of shadows, soft shadowing and just the shadows in general need alot of work as this is a huge part of making something look real. This is why models in G-max or other modelling programs can often look miles better than they do in the sim.

Plus no mention of better flight dynamics, at the moment flightsim cannot model what happens when an aircraft essentially stops "flying" and falls on momentum and the physical properties of the airframe, like when a sukhoi does it's backflip or any of it's airshow tricks (something that required great lateral thinking to get over when making the AS sukhoi.) This in turn means it cannot model VTOL (this is also because vectored thrust is also not modelled. Plus the previous improvements to turbulence and rudder and ground handling are needed as mentioned by Nexus.

Plus I for one would like to see the ability to use runways that are not totally flat as the majority of runways on small fields are not, this would mean that the ground physic of the airplane would have to be updated as well.

On the good side the birds and dolphins make a nice change but I would like to bird strike and I doubt it will happen but it would be good to have an IL-2 like damage engine.

Come on MS pull your socks up you have alot to catch up to other sims. Use those resources you have.
 
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Reply #25 - Jan 6th, 2006 at 11:10am

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One day what you say will come i'm sure. FS-12,13 maybe?
 

...&&This months's screenshot contest entry> http://www.simviation.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1197692798
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Reply #26 - Jan 6th, 2006 at 11:23am

Mees   Offline
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it can be my eyes, but is that water 3d? Shocked
 

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Reply #27 - Jan 6th, 2006 at 11:25am

Nexus   Offline
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It just boggles my mind.
FS biggest flaw is not the eye candy, it's the flight dynamics. And from what it seems, the major upgrade in this version seems to be just that, EYE CANDY. At least that's what MS devs have been raving about so far  Undecided
 
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Reply #28 - Jan 6th, 2006 at 12:32pm

Katahu   Offline
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Uhh... how many times do some of us have to say that M$ will never tell us everything we want to hear until the very last moment [most likely after the release]? To borrow from somebody's statement: People who truely know cannot tell [obviously they signed a non-disclosure agreement] while those who say what they think they know may not be true at all.

So, just because M$ didn't say anything about the dynamics doesn't mean that the dynamics will be crap.

And for crying out loud, if you think that FSX will be crap, then don't buy it and stop whining. Do you have any idea how much effort the M$ developers have put into creating this sim? I don't know either, but I can bet my butt that the effort was massive.

Just wait. several years from now, we will be going through this same dumb arguement for FSXI, FSXII, etc. It seems to me that this is a never-ending cycle. And yet, people still buy it after complaining. Sheesh!
 
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Reply #29 - Jan 6th, 2006 at 12:39pm

BFMF   Offline
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Just wait. several years from now, we will be going through this same dumb arguement for FSXI, FSXII, etc. It seems to me that this is a never-ending cycle. And yet, people still buy it after complaining. Sheesh!


It happens every time a new flight simulator is announced. It's a de ja vou all over again Roll Eyes
 
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