Simviation Forum

Jun 14^th, 2003 at 5:02am

RIC_BARKER Offline
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It's gone commercial Sad

Why is everyone going commercial all of a sudden? I sure hope someone comes out with an alternative to FSUIPC, as when it's payware, they will have a complete monopoly on the interface situation.

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Reply #1 - Jun 14^th, 2003 at 5:31am

packercolinl Offline
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Yeah,Ric. The thread is down in Payware Cry

White on White fly all night.&&&&Red on White you're alright.&&&&Red on Red you'll soon be dead.

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Reply #2 - Jun 14^th, 2003 at 5:54am

Fozzer Offline
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An elderly FS 2004 addict!
Hereford. England. EGBS.

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Quote:

Yeah,Ric. The thread is down in Payware Cry

How much does it cost now...?
(Actually we were warned about this some time ago)... Wink

..!
...can't do without it tho'... Roll Eyes

...!

Cheers...
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(England).

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Reply #3 - Jun 14^th, 2003 at 11:55am

BFMF Offline
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...can't do without it tho'... Roll Eyes

...!

That's what has me worried. There's a ton of freeware files out there that specifically require the latest version of FSUIPC. Once it's gone payware, we'll be forced to buy it.

COMPLETED: If Anyone Cares, Here's A Map Of My Current FSX Flight Around The World

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Reply #4 - Jun 14^th, 2003 at 5:10pm

ozzy72 Offline
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Pretty scary huh?
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The situation is a little bit awkward, but we were well warned in advance. I guess we sit back and see what happens.
Either the payware version will fall flat on its face (most likely as most of us are tight, I know I am but that is 'cos I'm always skint!)
The designers won't buy it so the freeware stuff will keep pace with the last freeware version.
Or we all buy it... But as I said before I'm skint so I'll just have to make do.
Unless there are any clever bunny programmers who could do a spot of reverse engineering?

Ozzy

There are two types of aeroplane, Spitfires and everything else that wishes it was a Spitfire!

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Reply #5 - Jun 14^th, 2003 at 7:07pm

BFMF Offline
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Unless there are any clever bunny programmers who could do a spot of reverse engineering?

But to actually do anything like that is illegal Wink

COMPLETED: If Anyone Cares, Here's A Map Of My Current FSX Flight Around The World

My Reality Check Bounced

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Reply #6 - Jun 14^th, 2003 at 7:51pm

Blade Offline
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Annapolis, MD

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I agree, he will have a monopoly in the FS world, everyone will be forced to purchase it. Which in my mind is down right dirty. Not EVERYONE has a credit card and can buy it. I'm just hoping that the current freeware version MIGHT work in FS2004. Crossing my fingers.

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Reply #7 - Jun 17^th, 2003 at 11:32am

Fly2e Offline
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Here is the latest:

Weather Maker No Longer to be Freeware?

Posted: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 15:22
"Yes it could be a possibility... " according to Reed Stough, President of Calibre Software Solutions. He stated that "unless they can find a different way to manipulate the weather in Microsoft's Flight Simulator Products, they may have to begin charging a fee for the Weather Maker Products. This statement is in light of the recent news that FSUIPC was going to go commercial." Reed said, that "what Pete Dowson has done has provided a tremendous opening for many add-ons to enhance Flight Simulator." He agrees "that Pete should begin charging for his work he has done. However, it has been Calibre's Philosophy not to charge for something that is not completely theirs. Without the FSUIPC module, WeatherMaker and many other add-ons would not work. Thus it is a good move for Mr. Dowson." Contact Calibre Software Solutions.

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Reply #8 - Jun 17^th, 2003 at 2:17pm

Blade Offline
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Everything is going payware now! I respect Pete Dowson's move but it puts to much a price on other people because they can't afford all this payware! Undecided

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Reply #9 - Jun 17^th, 2003 at 3:10pm

tvale80 Offline
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i cant

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Reply #10 - Jun 17^th, 2003 at 3:21pm

ozzy72 Offline
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Pretty scary huh?
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The reverse engineering thing isn't illegal. All you have to be able to prove is that you weren't exposed to the Pete Dowson source code!
Okay, a quick history lesson for the youth from an old foggie (who can still fly the paint off anything I might add!);
When IBM made the first PCs all the info about the system was readily available, except the ROM BIOS (basic input/output system) which was patented to IBM to stop cloning of their PCs unless you brought their chips (which were overpriced, in the traditional IBM fashion). To make the trap of duplication even stickier the clever eggs at IBM published the specs of the BIOS chip, so if anyone copied it they could be prosecuted!
Now the code in the ROM-BIOS was proprietry to IBM, so all a company had to do was get some programmers to make educated guesses about how it worked based on the input and output results, and then get some 'virgins' (people who had not been exposed to the IBM code) to write the necessary. The company that did this was Compaq Computers. They made the first clones and didn't break the law because they could prove their programmers hadn't been exposed to the IBM code, and hadn't duplicated it. Therefore the law had not been broken. IBM hadn't thought this through v.well Roll Eyes

So the whole point of FSUIPC is that if you could write a 'similar' program without Petes source code, then you'd be sound. At least that is the theory. Whether anyone is clever enough to is another matter. I know I'm not!!!
I personally admire Pete a great deal, he has given a great deal to this community with little or no return, but I think making FSUIPC payware is a big shot in his own foot as most people can't/won't fork out for it. If he made all his other stuff payware instead I could see some logic in it.
However it is obviously his bread and butter program, and he needs to put food on the table just like the rest of us, and he might be suffering personal circumstances that have precipitated this move. I think I'll just watch and wait before I make a judgement one way or the other.

Ozzy

There are two types of aeroplane, Spitfires and everything else that wishes it was a Spitfire!

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Reply #11 - Jun 17^th, 2003 at 3:24pm

planespotter Offline
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well as far as stuff already released needing the latest version. I would assumed it would be the latest when the file was released, not always updating to the lastest version.

Wouldn't all the files requiring FSUIPC need to be updated and rereleased if that was the case?

As far as the freeware working in 2004, I wouldn't tend to think so.

Sorry guys, but this is no longer just a game, it's a hobby. Like golf or skiing it cost money to enjoy your hobby.

you either can get on the bus or be left out in the dark. As far as not having a CC, there are other ways of paying. Friends CC, Money order, Paypall with direct w/drawl from checking account.

If there is an airshow with in 2 states of me I'm there&&&&&&

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Reply #12 - Jun 17^th, 2003 at 3:59pm

Oz Offline
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well the problem is with all these designers going payware, sites like these will have trouble even staying alive. IMHO i think people will someday realize that the payware idea is getting a bit outta hand when they start wasting too much money on it. I mean, fine i think maybe 5 bucks is a reasonable price but when designers start selling their products at 15...then 20...then 30 bucks thatll be the end of payware (In My Opinion) Although some people overlook this as a hobby, there are many who look at it only as a game. Skiing and surfing are totally different things. This is virtual reality, where nothing you see is real. I can accept and respect the fact that designers spend so much time in the making of their models; time which they can use to spend with their families and enjoy life. But then thats their problem since no one is forcing them to make models and if they want time to spend with their families then they should organize the time frame they use for designing and for real life. Still i respect and admire their work and although i may comment on my stance towards this issue and my opinon it should not be interpreted as complaining or insulting. As a matter of fact payware designers are good entrepreneurs and are quite smart in realizing a way to earn money in this type of 'business'. So let me repeat again, this is my own opinion on this subject..

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Reply #13 - Jun 18^th, 2003 at 12:00am

planespotter Offline
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I can accept and respect the fact that designers spend so much time in the making of their models; time which they can use to spend with their families and enjoy life. But then thats their problem since no one is forcing them to make models and if they want time to spend with their families then they should organize the time frame they use for designing and for real life. .

The same can be said that people don't have to buy the payware to play the game. How many designers are out there and how many of them have gone payware, maybe a handful?

Would you go to work for free, I now I wouldn't? Wink

If there is an airshow with in 2 states of me I'm there&&&&&&

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Reply #14 - Jun 18^th, 2003 at 12:02am

Blade Offline
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Annapolis, MD

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Remember people no one has said if or if NOT FSUIPC will work with FS2004, I doubt it but its possible. If it is, Pete's battleship has been sunk, hook line and sinker...

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Reply #15 - Jun 18^th, 2003 at 12:18am

Oz Offline
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Would you go to work for free, I now I wouldn't? Wink

This isnt a job. Like you said, its a hobby Wink

. In a real job, my efforts would help a certain company prosper and succeed. Payware designers take advantage of the fact that people will actually buy the add-on and so they will find it rather convenient to earn money the easy way. I hope the older verisions of FSUIPC will work in FS2004, or like i said, sites like these will have problems holding up. But as i stated maybe when people realize they arent gonna waste all their money on these virtual addons there will be less consumers of payware and therefore the number of payware procuts will decrease in number. Anyhow we will always have the 'pure' freeware designers like Mel and the Ground Crew boys. I guess if i really want an aircraft badly, ill resort to designing one myself.. Wink

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Reply #16 - Jun 18^th, 2003 at 12:28am

Blade Offline
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This isnt a job. Like you said, its a hobby Wink

. In a real job, my efforts would help a certain company prosper and succeed. Payware designers take advantage of the fact that people will actually buy the add-on and so they will find it rather convenient to earn money the easy way. I hope the older verisions of FSUIPC will work in FS2004, or like i said, sites like these will have problems holding up. But as i stated maybe when people realize they arent gonna waste all their money on these virtual addons there will be less consumers of payware and therefore the number of payware procuts will decrease in number. Anyhow we will always have the 'pure' freeware designers like Mel and the Ground Crew boys. I guess if i really want an aircraft badly, ill resort to designing one myself.. Wink

Oz, its not a hobby anymore, its become a business. Personally I'm gonna get FS2004, buy FSUIPC, move all my a/c over, and thats it. Its all gonne be a MESS because of Pete. I don't wanna be around when the cookie crumbles a few weeks after FS2004 is released.

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Reply #17 - Jun 18^th, 2003 at 11:31am

planespotter Offline
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Quote:

This isnt a job. Like you said, its a hobby Wink

. In a real job, my efforts would help a certain company prosper and succeed. Payware designers take advantage of the fact that people will actually buy the add-on and so they will find it rather convenient to earn money the easy way.

I stated for the person playing the game it's a hobby, not for the designer who has gone payware. Then it makes him a job. In your job you are providing a service for an outsourced provider. These payware designers are doing the samething. They are providing software that offers more than the default/freeware files that are offered.

I don't see how they are taking advantage of anyone as they aren't forcing us to purchase these addons?

Look at Abacus, they continue to release crap. I for one have stopped purchasing from them because of that and warn people of my money wasted on their product. yet Lago, FSGenesis and Lago has been money well spent by me. It adds to my enjoyment of MS2002 and hopefully 2004.

The people whinning seem to think it's so easy to put out "QUALITY" airfiles. If this was the case you would see alot more. I'll be waiting for your first release to let me know how easy it really is?

I for one don't want to learn so I have no worries purchasing quality product. There are people out there with talents I don't have and I thank them for that.

Good Luck Oz

If there is an airshow with in 2 states of me I'm there&&&&&&

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Reply #18 - Jun 18^th, 2003 at 2:23pm

Oz Offline
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Quote:

I stated for the person playing the game it's a hobby, not for the designer who has gone payware. Then it makes him a job. In your job you are providing a service for an outsourced provider. These payware designers are doing the samething. They are providing software that offers more than the default/freeware files that are offered.

I don't see how they are taking advantage of anyone as they aren't forcing us to purchase these addons?

Look at Abacus, they continue to release crap. I for one have stopped purchasing from them because of that and warn people of my money wasted on their product. yet Lago, FSGenesis and Lago has been money well spent by me. It adds to my enjoyment of MS2002 and hopefully 2004.

The people whinning seem to think it's so easy to put out "QUALITY" airfiles. If this was the case you would see alot more. I'll be waiting for your first release to let me know how easy it really is?

I for one don't want to learn so I have no worries purchasing quality product. There are people out there with talents I don't have and I thank them for that.

Good Luck Oz

I didnt mean the 'taking advantage' like that. I meant taking advantage of the fact that people will actually buy something like this. I dont mean that they're taking advantage of the people. I know making a model isnt easy and it wont be fast, but ill try my best. (All Pros were novices once)

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Reply #19 - Jun 18^th, 2003 at 3:14pm

RIC_BARKER Offline
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Here's my 2 pence worth...

I think Pete Dowson has done a great service to the flight sim community with FSUIPC. It's allowed designers to do many, many things that would otherwise not have been possible. I think it's great that he released them as freeware. I am upset however, that he's chosen to go the payware route. I don't think it's wrong - it's his prerogative after all - just a little dissapointed. Dissapointed in the same way I am whenever I see previously freeware outfits go the payware route.

I guess everyone moves on. As someone else her said, perhaps personal circumstances have 'forced' Pete into this. The fact remains that as more developers go to the 'Dark Side', another young gun will be more than happy to fill their freeware shoes.

There is an immense wealth of talent in this community, and rest assured that someone, somewhere will develop an alternative sooner or later.

As with any payware product, it should be our right 'not to buy'. Case in point - Abacus. Planespotter said they continue to release crap. Well fair enough, no-one is making you buy it - so don't. But, before you bash Abacus too much, remember that they produce a trio of programs without which (up until the realease of the gMax gamepack anyway), we would all have been flying the deafualt planes, with very few exceptions.

Anyways, like I said, just my 2 pence worth...

Ric B.

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Reply #20 - Jun 19^th, 2003 at 4:06pm

striker Offline
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Don't read this. Read
my post.
Wilmington, NC

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Well just one alternative view on this.

As an avid & experienced flight simmer for years I've never installed any of Pete Dowson's FSUIPC or any other of his files.

Never even though about it.

I've installed all kinds of stuff & even design aircraft in my spare time. So what am I missing?

& I bet you my bottom dollar I'm in the majority of FS users here

&&

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Reply #21 - Jul 10^th, 2003 at 10:22pm

Mustang Offline
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Chicago IL

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If you want to be able to buy payware make payware....
simple. you get what you put in. but then again simviation is the same put in a free plane get out free planes. whatever... things are changeing... unfortunantly

Also you can still Dl FSuipc on simviation... i did like 4 days ago

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Reply #22 - Jul 10^th, 2003 at 11:05pm

RIC_BARKER Offline
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"Shazzam"

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Word is all current versions of FSUIPC will be incompatible with FS2004CoF Sad

Ric B.

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Reply #23 - Jul 17^th, 2003 at 5:53pm

TJ_Gumby Offline
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Helloooowwww!!! !!!!
Vancouver

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Making payware is just fine. However, what irks me is when they make freeware and then change their minds. (like ArrCab) Newcomers have to buy these programs, while listening to the rest of us gloat about getting it when it was free. As for COF and FSUIPC, i guess i'll be doing all my carrier landings in FS2002. Roll Eyes

&&

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Reply #24 - Jul 21^st, 2003 at 7:52pm

Wing Nut Offline
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Hoy-Hoy!

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You may want to look at this. I think that it's not totally payware, but certain aspects of it will be. I could be wrong.

http://forums.simflight.com/viewtopic.php?t=8906

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Reply #25 - Jul 22^nd, 2003 at 3:37pm

Fozzer Offline
Colonel
An elderly FS 2004 addict!
Hereford. England. EGBS.

Posts: 24861

Hi Dread....!

Thanks for the link. Usefull reading... Wink

...!
I regularly get E-Mails from the "simFlight Network" regarding programs for sale, (LAGO, etc,), so hopefully they will keep me up-to-date with FSUIPC, we need it for our weather programs, at least!

Cheers mate... Grin

...!
Paul.
(England).

Dell Dimension 5000 BTX Tower. Win7 Home Edition, 32 Bit. Intel Pentium 4, dual 2.8 GHz. 2.5GB RAM, nVidia GF 9500GT 1GB. SATA 500GB + 80GB. Philips 17" LCD Monitor. Micronet ADSL Modem only. Saitek Cyborg Evo Force. FS 2004 + FSX. Briggs and Stratton Petrol Lawn Mower...Motor Bikes. Gas Cooker... and lots of musical instruments!.... ...!
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