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Iraq (Read 6021 times)
Reply #45 - Mar 10th, 2003 at 4:18pm

Fozzer   Offline
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I understood that discussions regarding politics, religion, race, etc, was discouraged on these Forums.
I am an English member of the San Francisco KRON4 Forum, and the flaming that goes on there between Americans and each other, and Americans and the rest of the world is terrifying!
I just peep in to have a look, and try not to get involved.
Much too stressfull...!
It is normally a delight to go to the Simviation Forums to get some light-hearted relief from all that grief and aggravation....!
Please leave it to other Forums for fisticuffs...!
Thanks...

Cheers...
Paul.
(England).
 

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Reply #46 - Mar 10th, 2003 at 11:11pm

Zero_Bubble   Offline
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??? ??? ??? ??? ???

We've heard day in and day out about people demonstrating against the US and Britain for planning to wage war against Iraq. Has anyone heard of Asian countries such as Korea, Japan, China, Taiwan, Singapore, Thailand, Vietnam, and others openly demonstrating also. Has anyone also heard of South American countries from Panama all the way down to Brazil and Chile openly demonstrating against the war with Iraq? Seems to me like it's only the French and the Germans plus some factions in the US. Not even Russia have open demonstration. I wonder why.

Zero Bubble
 
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Reply #47 - Mar 11th, 2003 at 11:33am

pete   Offline
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Quote:
I understood that discussions regarding politics, religion, race, etc, was discouraged on these Forums.
I am an English member of the San Francisco KRON4 Forum, and the flaming that goes on there between Americans and each other, and Americans and the rest of the world is terrifying!
I just peep in to have a look, and try not to get involved.
Much too stressfull...!
It is normally a delight to go to the Simviation Forums to get some light-hearted relief from all that grief and aggravation....!
Please leave it to other Forums for fisticuffs...!
Thanks...

Cheers...
Paul.
(England).


I'll just underline that  8)

This is an FS & machines that avoid gravity forum - so please guys treat this place like a restaurant - enjoy the food but please - keep off emotional highly charged topics because good friends will be lost.

Like Fozzer says - this is a place to enjoy - & avoid the nastiness that goes on out there in the big wide world.  8)
 

Think Global. It's the world we live in.
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Reply #48 - Mar 11th, 2003 at 12:53pm

BFMF   Offline
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Quote:
Like Fozzer says - this is a place to enjoy - & avoid the nastiness that goes on out there in the big wide world.  8)


very true, I come here to escape reality Grin Wink
 
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Reply #49 - Mar 13th, 2003 at 6:36am

Professor Brensec   Offline
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There is always more to be said. Someone who has just one more bit of input that may clarify or support their point of view.

But, in the end, I suppose we've managed to cover most areas of a quite controversial subject in a very civilised and congenial manner. I've read through the entire thread and it seems to me to be just a discussion about a "current affair" in which there have been no explosions of emotion or demonstrations of rudeness or nasty insinuations.

So, if we call it a day now, I suppose we can say that we can do it. We can look back in a few months and say "remeber that 4 page thread about Iraq in which everyone was calm and considerate and there was no animosity at all".  Grin Wink

Congrats people!  Grin 8)
 

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Reply #50 - Mar 17th, 2003 at 2:03pm

Fly2e   Offline
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      I recently decided to stay off the political fence here at the forums, but I need to express something to our freinds and neighbors accross the way who most likely only see what "The Media" sells them. America is behind our President and the Men and Women fighting for all of us at this very moment.
    If anyone in our domestic antiwar movement offered me a convincing alternative to a war to eliminate Saddam Hussein, I would be the first in line to sign up. But the protestors do not offer serious solutions to the threat of weapons of mass destruction or the agony of the Iraqi people. They merley shout well-intentioned slogans, bond briefly, pat themselves on the back, and go home to their insulated lives.
    If platitudes could change the world for the better, I would be out there myself, marching in favor of universal disarmament. I credit the anti-war movement within the United States with sincere emotion. But it is utterly lacking in intellectual integrity. An earnest, if vague, sense that war is bad may inspire the undergraduates of America, but it does not prevent massacres, depose tyrants or deter terrorists.
Consider the greatest lie that adorns those painted posters, as our fellow citizens march in the streets chanting: "War doesn't solve anything."
    On the contrary, war solves a great deal. Not always for the better, that I grant. But fortunatley, the good guys HAVE WON more often than not, for the past few hundred years. Do the protestors believe that our Civil War, which ended the institution of slavery in our country, failed to solve anything? Would we be better off had blacks remained in bondage on our soil? It was civil society, after the war, that failed african Americans.The SOLDIERS did their part and changed history all for the better!
    As a man with some remaining shreds of conscience, I wish the protesters were correct, that war was pointless and useless, and that we could abolish it. But humankind is not made so. It is easy for actors and actresses like Susan Sarandon or Sean Penn to look through their rose-colored sunglasses and say "No War". Singing songs, however lovely the voices, will not soften the killer's heart. If you leave these shores, where you can duck into a cozy Starbucks after an hour or two of protest marching and celebrate with a latte, the world rapidly takes on a different coloration. How would the protestors feel if they had to live under Saddam's regime for even a few months? Without a decaf or mocha latte in sight?
    I would feel much more sympathetic to the anti-war movement if they would offer me rigorous answers to a few straight foward questions:

    1. Do you honestly believe, after 12 years of failure, that U.N. Inspections can disarm Saddam Hussein? If your reply is "Yes", or if you refuse to believe the evidence that Saddam posseses weapons of mass destruction, wants more of them, and intends to use them, proceed to question #2.
    2. Should we simply turn our backs on the Iraqi people and allow Saddam to continue to torment and murder them? Should we, thereafter, allow one of his homocidal sons to succeed him? Don't the people of Iraq, who have been gassed, tortured, raped, shot and starved (while Saddam builds dozens of vast palaces for himself), deserve liberation? Or is freedom only for educated people and Hollywood activists?
    3. What would YOU do, in practical terms, to prevent the spread of weapons of mass destruction and their eventual use by terrorists against us?. NO generalities, please  -  specified answers are required.
    Until our anti-war activists, with their presumed monopoly on virtue, can answer those questions, I shall remain unconvinced that they know whereof they shout. It is not enough to oppose, if you cannot offer convincing alternatives. Progress and security demand a sense of responsibility. It is always satisfying to complain, but far harder to forge solutions. It is, above all, the dishonesty and the moral might of the anti-war movement that disappoints me.
    I wish the activists had better solutions  -  genuine alternatives to war. I wish they would engage the rest of us in intellectually. But behind the fashionable poses and quaint campus anger, the closed minds and indestructible prejudices of the anti-war movement are cause for dismay. How can we speak with those who are always shouting?
    I speak for the majority of Americans, we are behind our troops and the troops of the free world in this fight against terror. Now is the time to stand up against evil and show support for the good people, the everyday people, OUR People who are out there, on the front lines for all of us, so you don't have to worry about relaxing at Starbucks and being blown up while you sit there and drink your Double Dipped Mocha Decaf Latte!


I Just wanted to let the world know we are behind Our President, Our Free Country and Our Soldiers who are about to Change the World for the good of all man-kind.

In the words of George Bush, " We are a peaceful nation,..... but angry when stirred "


     
« Last Edit: Mar 17th, 2003 at 4:08pm by Fly2e »  

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Reply #51 - Mar 18th, 2003 at 12:18am

Professor Brensec   Offline
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At the risk of prolonging a discussion that we have been warned can come to grief if not handled in a sensitive and considerate way, I need to say the following:

Firstly, thankyou to Fly2E fr your insights. I can only agree 100%.

I fear the prospect of war at any level for my countrymen and those of the US and UK. Also all the other UN nations which may take part if the UN council gives its' "blessing" by including the use of immediate force to disarm Hussein and to free the Iraqi people (the latter of which, there seems to be too liitle discussion among the powerful and mighty). After all, we are talking about an enslaved people in terms of housing, food, medical services and supplies and more (the least of which is not freedom) at the hands of a man who would gas his own, and environmentally destroy there own backyard out of sheer childish vindictiveness.

I have learnt that UN resolutions do NOT expire or become invalid over time (unless specifically negated by way of another resolution), so this being the case, I have also learnt that the UN member nations (includung the US, UK and Australia) already have the UN resolutions from twelve years ago to justify, legally and morally, continuing to pursue the necessary exercises undertaken in 1991.

If, and all things point towards it, war in the M.E. ends up being the result, are the antiwar proponents going to be at the docks and airbases to spit on those who return? We know they are capable of it, don't we?
Will it take 10 years to apologise, this time?

I hope not.

Our newspapers and television (at least in Sydney) is now featuring Armed Service personnel asking the general populace to understand that the freedom they have to protest and criticise has to be defended and they would, as fellow Australians, like to feel that their countrymen support them. Why is something so sad, necessary?
 

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Reply #52 - Mar 18th, 2003 at 12:32am

BFMF   Offline
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Well said, Fly2E. As much as everyone hates war, it is sometimes necessary for good to triumph over evil nomatter the costs
 
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Reply #53 - Mar 18th, 2003 at 8:35am
ATI_7500   Ex Member

 
Quote:
very true, I come here to escape reality Grin Wink


what? there's a reality?? Grin
 
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