I'm with Brad on this one, I've done spins, and even for an experienced pilot they can be dangerous. And as he says they don't do the plane any good. Sure an SU-29 can take it, but a Cessna?
Unfortunately with learning to fly some realistic economics has to come into it. Certainly safety is of primary importance, and I look upon the PPL as being like the driving licence, it says you are capable of doing the minimum to drive, you should never stop learning. Unfortunately most car drivers think that a driving licence means they are now a road-god! Lets be honest when did any of us last pick up our Highway Code and read it? And we're meant to every year.... So it should be with flying. You've got your PPL and then you should take more advanced lessons to learn those new skills that could save your life one day.

Ozzy

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Well, not quite!

Looks like there's some real disagreement here about spins (methinks this is one of those 'agree-to-disagree' standoffs)!

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Scubapro, I gather from your avatar/signature you're a CFI.......I'm amazed by some of your comments here!

Spins are only "hard on airplanes" if not done properly and within the limitations of the craft (given in the Operator's Manual). For instance, I've flown C-152s and 172s that were certified in the Utility category and approved for spins. I haven't had my own op's manuals out recently (buried in a box somewhere in the basement), but I recall that the 152 had a Utility rating that stipulated a max of 3 spin rotations with the flaps up....ditto for the 172 except there could be no passengers or baggage in the back seat or rear compartment. Any change from these configurations means that spins shouldn't be attempted. Of course, the manuals also spell out the appropriate recovery procedures.

So (to get to the point), IF:
.....thoroughly trained in spins by a qualified CFI;
.....performed in an aircraft certified for spinning; and
.....done at a safe altitude using the proper recovery  techniques.....
spins are not dangerous and will not overstress the aircraft.

I believe in aviation safety as much as the next pilot (the SAFETY FIRST concept gets drummed into every student pilot's head); spins, stalls, or other maneuvers are only as safe or unsafe as the competence of the pilot (in training, skill, judgement....).

As Hagar said, spins used to be a required part of flight training. Can't say that I've done any real research on it,
but I doubt this was changed by the FAA due to any extraordinary statistics about spin accidents. I suspect it was probably an attempt to boost the General Aviation industry (here in the U.S.), by making student flight training less demanding (or seem less intimidating).

Well, I wouldn't notice what it says in a C-182 manual because I don't happen to have one and I haven't flown a 182 in about 9 years! If the operator's manual approves it for spins, great! Spin it (just heed the instructions)!

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What!!? I'd say if anything they're built much better, given the significant advancements in construction technology and materials.

BTW, no one's questioning how things are done at your flight school (how'd I know?); the debate here is about the merits of spin training and whether it should be taught.

Again, spins are only exceedingly stressful to the airframe when carelessly executed.....as from improper recovery technique resulting in an extended spin that induces higher loads. When accidents occur from this (whether just structural damage or something more serious), it's attributable to "pilot error"......a term you'll often see as the root cause of most aviation accidents.

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Ozzy,

With regard to the comment about drivers never looking at a "traffic manaul" after they get their license.
I agree 100%. It's surprising how many of my family and friends are ignorant of a few important changes to the road rules here. (I discovered this in a recent family discussion regarding driver training and competence).

I must admit that I only knew because I have to attend the RTA (Roads and Traffic Authority) office to renew my "Disabled Parking" authority every 3 years. While waiting for processing a few months ago, I had a go on the auto-computerised testing system they have there. Of course, questions relating to the recent changes were included.
I think a written test each 3 or 5 years would go a long way towards driver awareness, no only for new regs but the old ones everyone seems to have "forgotten". 

Andrew I think you'll find on older FSs that due to simpler aerodynamic calculations spins were easier to induce. I still find them easy on 2k2, and in particular love doing them in my Spit!
Brensec I'm still in Hungary, but I'm planning to get on with the build as soon as things get back to normal. Seem to spend a lot of time in court throwing wobblies to no effect! I do get home at least once a year though if I can.
Oh and the Aus company that is doing the 3/4 scale Spitfires is to be located at http://www.supermarineaircraft.com/ as theirs was one option I was looking at, but I'm a big bloke and need a wee bit more room!

Ozzy

when you stall faster:)
sorry i just had to

as for spins there is a whole thing in one of my handbooks for learning but unlike most sections it doesnt give a thing for practical work on it.(with instructor of coarse)???

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Effectively, this means that if you are in a plane say, with a low landing approach speed and were coming in at say about 65 kts, and you had a tail gust of 20 kts or so, you could end up flat on your face (or some other part) before you knew what happened.

I take it, this is the basic idea. 

Just one more thing - on the actual subject.

The P39, according to my literature, was a very dangerous plane when it came to stalls, spins and indeed any loss of control due to the very different balance (CG etc) in the way the engine was mounted.
I have read in some places that the method of getting out of a stall spin was to bend over and put your head between your legs...............
So you could kiss your arse goodbye.

Was there an approved method to recover from a spin, or was it just "pot luck" if you made it?

P.S. I have no trouble recovering in the "Stock" CFS2 Airocobra nor the download P400 "Miss America" (probably same config.). I find it works with full stick forward and the rest of the usual actions.
I haven't got a 1% to try it with. (Is there one?)
I have tried in Fighter Ace a million times, and it seems nothing will work.

Anyone have the "dope" on this plane?