Flight sims are interesting to a lot of people for a lot of different reasons. And we all have differing needs, resources, and circumstances.

Many of us can only look at the full blown 747 cockpit built on a full motion platform with a curved projection screen and dream.

But at the other end there are many using a cheap joystick, or even a mouse and keyboard, and trying to save up enough money to buy any yoke that they can afford. To them, a comparison of which $1,000 or $1,500 yoke is better, is pointless.

And the person sharing a small apartment, or living in a small studio apartment, can have no dream of that full sized cockpit. The one computer and a small desk may be all that is available to them.

What's needed for us is an area where we can talk of maximizing what's available at the lower end. What is "THE BEST" is of less interest than the question of "Can I afford it?" "Which yoke, CH or Saitek, will be best for me". Or "Now that I have a yoke, what's the next thing to buy?" "Should I buy something else less costly instead". "Should I buy it used"? "Will I like it enough to make the purchase worthwhile?"

In the end, bit by bit, we may end up with enough buttons, levers, switches, and screens to satisfy us. But it will be bit by bit, and within the resources of time, money, space, and family that are available to each individuals circumstance.

Over the past 2+ years I’ve bought what I could afford and made it mine with cheap little mods (and some not so cheap). It’s no grand sim pit, but I can “fly” more like in a simulator than like in a game.

Is anyone interested in such a discussion?

I must agree completely with you. If I'm lucky, and the wife is in a great mood, I can buy computer parts.
All my investment is in just a few basic parts, and a lot of time learning how to get the most of it.

All my specs are listed. It's taken years to accumulate all this stuff. I'm still using a Saitek X-45, for Pete's sake.

Curious about what the original poster flies...

See you up there!

Bass wrote on Feb 18^th, 2013 at 2:26pm:


I ended up getting most of the Saitek stuff. But there have been some places where I've gone in a different direction.

For instance - I Really like the Saitek Pro Flight Instrument Panels. But you really do need at least 6. And THAT costs a lot.

My solution was to buy two 9 inch USB monitors, one of which is a touchscreen monitor. I use a program called

G.A.Panel

from PEIX Software to place flight instruments on them.

When you have it all set up with the gauges that you want, you save it. The next time you start G.A. Panel it opens in the screen that you last saved it from. The flight instruments are where you placed them.

Put one set of instruments on one screen and save it with a name like CESSNA1. Create another set of instruments on another screen and save it with a name like CESSNA2. Open both and you have 2 screens filled with your instruments.

Speed of flight wrote on Feb 18^th, 2013 at 5:55pm:


I tell her "At least I'm not out with the "boys" having a drink or two".     

And last fall I actually did show her a shelf with un-worn, and un-wanted, clothing.

It didn't stop her completely from getting me useless stuff, but I did get some gift cards too.

So don't just throw out the gift bath robes, ties, sweaters, etc. Put them to good use, pile them on a high shelf for next year.

I am compressed! You've got quite a setup there! I'd never be able to convince the wife to let me get more than one display. Granted, it's a 25", but the 6870 has room to plug in 2 more. Just sayin... You've done quite a neat custom trick with the 2 monitors. I'm going to have to find some way to make that software work for a heavy, if it can.

Most of what I put my effort into is the pc. I run AMD, but only because they're cheaper and (and although I'll catch hell) comparable, as of late. On some level they are, but of course they're not swinging for the i7 3900 series, but plenty powerful still.

I'm concerned with speed, in every component I can get it from. So, most of what I'd have to show is the case, and what's in it. Probably not as interesting, but it's pretty fast, I guess.

I'm at a desk with 1 monitor, stereo speakers with a sub, the X-45, a coolermaster HAF 932, and a passion.
Speaking of which, I'm going to fly.

Being forever conscious of the fact that that what I am viewing in front of me every day, is merely an image on a computer monitor, and my joystick is merely arranging pixels in various colours, and configurations on the monitor screen in front of me, and bears little, or no resemblance whatsoever, to flying a real aeroplane, I am tempted to spend as little money as possible on my computer "Game", and reserve it for real flights in my local flying clubs real Cessna 150/152 instead!

At present I have a 13-year old Intel Pentium P4 2.8 GHz, with a nVidia GF 9500 GT video card, on my Dell Tower Computer, a 17 inch LCD monitor, and a useful Saitek Evo Force Joystick, enabling me to pretend that I am "flying" around the World with my copy of FS 2004, and exploring different places, with the aid of Google Street Maps and Wikipedia, for local information...

When the warning signs of smoke from my kitchen reminds me that my Dinner is burning in my oven, I am reminded that I am actually playing a computer game, and not flying a real aeroplane!
...the rest is all in the mind...trust me... .... ....!

Like most things in life, I tend NOT take things too seriously!...

Paul..little boys and toys!... ...! 

I have absolutely no idea if this will help anyone with any other version of MS flight sim but this is what gave me the highest frames per second.

And best of all, IT'S FREE

It was in an old Aerosoft.com posting by Mathijs that no longer seems to be available. I saved a copy of it at the time, but the only place that I can find it now is on a (presumably) Spanish website.

This is within posting # 73 by vaca. The artical within the posting is in english, and is titled “

Why do get 50 fps and you get single digit fps?

”.

Before you start check your frame rates – SHIFT + Z.

There is no need to get into the CFG files.

Try ALL of the recommended settings. And check the FPS again.

If your computer can run FSX this WILL make improvements

I have FSX as well as FS 2004...(and Sinclair Spectrum 48K, Commodore C64, Amiga 1200, Flight Unlimited II, Pro Pilot '99, FS '98, FS 2000, FS 2002, and CFS 2), but my present lowly Hardware floats my FS 2004 boat admirably, in calm waters, with no necessity to spend any more money on upgrades, etc, allowing me to spend cash on all my other hobbies; musical instruments, bits and bobs for my motor-bikes, food, drink,....and loose women... ....!

....it all comes down to personal priorities...>>>

(a) Loose Women.
(b) The rest.

Paul... ... ...!

Bass wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 11:44am:


My Banjo playing attracts Hill-Billy loose women... ... ...!

Paul... ... ...!

What has worked 100% reliably for me since the release of FSX, is to avoid the tweaking. The sliders in game are the best starting point to figure out what your computer can actually handle efficiently. I run very high settings on all, with a quad core AMD and 4 GB of ramm, with a 1GB video card.

I've discussed this issue with others in different forums too. I have an opinion (and it is purely my own, based on no independant testing or otherwise) that the biggest problems with FSX are caused by the constant manipulation that occures when too many addons are added, and too many tweaks are invoked, and they all start to fight for the limited resouces that FSX is able to call on. We all know that FSX is highly dependant on the CPU, and some manipulation of multicores can help to a point, but I tend to believe that this also becomes a choke point when trying to induce too much out of FSX with too many addons. Memory issues abound because of the 32 bit nature of FSX. And as you've noticed, the biggest baddest GPU or SLI combination may not actually result in a drastic performance increase for FSX. I also believe that a lack of standard file formatting between addons causes problems.

Thus what works for me, is to steer clear of all these bells and wistles, and leave my expectations for FSX as they are. The graphics are tolerable. I can see trees. They may not be the best 3D trees I've seen, but I can sure tell they are trees and I should avoid having them directly infront of my graphical display. I can see runways. They may not be the best hi-def runway textures I have ever seen, but I know that I can land and take off there.

So in summary, my personal preference is not about the many (and some very expensive) graphical enhancments available for FSX. I do use the CH products yoke, TQ, and peddals, which is about as high a sense of realism that I am willing to pay for. With these control peripherals, and the countless buttons and switches, it allows me to practice flying as best as possible from the comfort of my basement. It makes FSX a reasonably decent systems and proceedures simulator.  EDIT: By not making myself reliant on the GEX and the REX and the UTX and the NGX and the whateverX addons out there, I find that my eXpectations are well within the intended purposes that microsoft released FSX on. An application of the K.I.S.S. principle?

Computer specs wise, I was aware of what could adequately handle FSX and purchased my last computer with this in mind. However, like the OP, my computer has more primary purposes, and FSX is allowed to run so long as it behaves itself, which it has done so for 6 or 7 years now.

As I get older my options are getting limited. What I can do is enjoy the world vicariously through reading, and every now and then I take a flight to where I’ve been, or where I would like to go.

I use my desk for too many things for it to be just a “sim pit”. So what I can do to make “flying” more enjoyable to myself, without completely taking over the desk, I try to do.

MY SIM PIT
When it’s not set up to “fly”, my desk is set up in a small corner like this –

*  The desk itself is a 2 1/2’ X 4’ office table that I bought at an office furniture auction back in the mid ‘90s for $10 (they had a lot of the same type of industrial tables left over after the auction. When I asked how much he wanted for one the guy just said, “ make an offer”).
*  The throttle is pushed off to the side.
*  The yoke is removed and placed under an old stereo stand that now acts as a footrest and a printer stand.
*  The 2 little USB monitors are kept in a nearby bookcase.
*  There are 3 monitors, 2 matching but bought years apart. The wife’s old screen isn’t all that good, but it does work.
*  The monitors sit on a self-made shelf to bring them up to eye level. Take two 1 ½ deep particleboard shelving (the type that has a veneer covering the flats and edges). One shelf will be cut to make supports for the top board.

I built this back in the late ‘90s and have always used it as a regular desk. Total cost, with the boards, was about $20.

FoMoCo63 wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 10:57pm:

You just reminded me of an actual "Ultimate in a Poor Mans ...)

I was waiting at a traffic light and looked off to the right. A homeless man had placed a tent against a street light pole. He had taken the cover off the pole near the base and was tapping the electric power to run his laptop.

I would have to say that the term "poor man" is relative. Shoes for a man who has no food is a luxury.

FoMoCo63 wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 10:57pm:

I'm sorry that I didn't pay proper attention to your posting!

You're saying that someone stole your computer!!!!

I've got an old computer case in the shed that you can have.

If we all chip in I bet that we can get you up and running in just a few days.

HANG IN THERE, BUDDY, WE'LL ALL LEND A HAND.

Now we are getting somewhere...
When buying new stuff, why not send the old to some who needs it!?
By selling it, you wont get much, but if making another happy and that person pays for the sending, everyone is happy!
I know, it must be on a new thread...
Just a thought

FoMoCo63 mentioned that he’s had to buy 4 or 5 joysticks because they “just gave out”.

I’m not being facetious here, but I’m really curious. How do they ware out? The one that I have seems well make (even if it was less than $15) and simple enough to last for a very long time. On the other hand I don’t play video games all that often.

I’ve seen joysticks, and joystick combinations, that cost many hundreds of dollars. I just have to assume that, if you’re really competitive with action video games, any advantage (real or imagined) will give you an edge over others.

I understand that it will be up to an individuals wants, needs, capabilities, experience, and funds as to what they will want and buy. But just as I found out that a faster video card didn’t significantly improve my FSX experience, I’m sure that others will be much more knowledge about joysticks.


With regards to flight simming - at what price range can you get a good GENERAL purpose Joystick? Anyone with a recommendation on what is a good value? What to stay away from?

I can easily recommend the Logitech Attack 3 Joystick. It’s still available (used) for $15 or less. The best feature is that you can assign any button to act as a shit key, thereby almost doubling the number of keys to assign to the flight sim of your choice. The scroll wheel at the bass can act as a trim wheel.



Just a side note - There’s a free program called

HIDMacros

that gives you even more options and works with any HID (human interface device) mouse, keyboard, and most joysticks. It’s not perfect, but it does give you a lot of options without having to do any programming. Another feature is that it lets you use multiple keyboards on you computer. That way you can modify a keyboard just for your flight sim. Need a cheep keyboard? I've seen them, used, for $1.00.




Any other recommendations?

Yes, one word comes in mind

PART 2

So I wanted a yoke. It took about 3 or 4 months for me to decide which one to get. There’s a lot to consider when you start looking. And then too, you have to wait for a sale.

For anyone who can afford a MEGA sim pit it’s less complicated. But for most married people it’s a little more complicated. What’s the wife, or significant other, going to say. After all, you could better spend the money on THEM! 

If you have to consider how to explain the purchase to the other half, there are only 2 choices for a yoke; the Saitek yoke ($127 with throttle quadrant included), or Ch Products yoke ($200 with the throttle quadrant built in. Plus built in rudder pedals). If the included Saitek throttle quadrant had a USB connector I might have bought the Saitek yoke set.

At the current prices it’s fairly simple: get the Saitek yoke/throttle quadrant if you don’t think that you’ll need the $92 Saitek rudder pedals. But when I bought mine they were both about $120-130. I went with the CH yoke because it had the throttle/prop/mixture controls on top AND the rudder control built into the yoke. One less thing to buy.

ITEM – Yoke, throttle/prop/mixture, rudder control, elevator & rudder trim.

If you do decide to get the Saitek or CH throttle quadrant, or even a regular rudder peddle set, the levers and rudder paddle can be reassigned for whatever you want. The 2 gray switches on the right are momentary switches. I have them set to Engine 1 (up) and Engine 2 (down). The second switch is Engine 3 (up) and Engine 4 (down). The pitch and rudder trim wheels on the front of the base yoke assembly works better than the one on the Saitek multipanel (which doesn't have a rudder trim anyway).


Over all, I like it a lot. The one problem commonly reported is that the shaft binds/sticks when you push/pull it. I tried several types of oil on the shaft but it didn’t really help. Not even Teflon oil helped.

TIP

And then I remembered white lithium grease. THAT worked perfectly. Put a very thin coating on the front and back of the shaft. After its worked its way into the shaft bushings you can wipe it off. Lasts about a year. A small tube (about $3) of lithium grease will probably last you a lifetime.

Except for the fact that there is no one solution that pleases averybody, me included.

Well don't know that anybodys interested, but, heres my poor mans sim !

it ain't much, really, but,, its kinda like being in the real thing ! 

Cost : 0 - Zip, Nilz , notta a thing ! 

Ahh my Fathers 1965 Cessna 172 

Jetranger